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Ryanair downsizing

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Ryanair downsizing

Old 4th Aug 2019, 11:33
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I really hope you are right guys.
Nobody is saying they're going bankrupt soon, simply that thay have an important pilot surplus for the planning they had.
Everybody knows they're getting 200 737s max, but when?
Brexit is going to happen 99% with a no deal soon, do you have any details on that?
Let's be realistic guys, how can an airline face the future with such great unsolved points?
Mentioned numbers of crew excess may be exagerated for the reasons you mention above, but I really think we won't have an answer really soon on what's the plan other than cutting jobs...
Again I hope I'm wrong!
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Old 4th Aug 2019, 12:39
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Brexit is the go too standard excuse for everything at the moment. I am sick of it.

J2 last week said itís having zero impact, brits will still holiday. Ryr said a few months ago, all plans are in place, it wonít cause that much of a drama. Until the disgruntled pilots ballot, then they wheel that excuse out again. The CFO last week was telling investors and press all is absolute rosey, yet mick and Eddie must scare the staff into submission again. It really is a tired and outdated form of management, and they are struggling to keep control for the last few years in the age of WhatsApp and fb etc.

A few few years ago they used SARS, just whatever excuse is close by is handy to scare the masses.

Every winter ryr parks aircraft, read the annual report and you can see this year is no exception. If people really think they will downsize crews with 200 new jets coming, you need your head tested and you are clearly the reason Vanv was invented. Not being able to see the big picture.

What at is the point in letting some crews go, when they will need them again when the maxes arrive! This is not a company shrinking it is still growing.

The lead time time to get crews through recruitment, through the sims, line training and to the line is ages. 6 months at least if you factor in the notice period at current employer, perhaps more for cadets. The sims are planned for the next 18months. They are still advertising daily for Ltc and Sfi...why is that....

bases may close, but this can and will always happen anyway, regardless in ryr. Look at gla a few years ago. Beaten into submission for new base agrement, told if it is not signed they will close the base. Guess what, it was signed, and they shut the base anyway 2 months later. If you are in a base of less than 5 aircraft and no significant infrastructure there that ryr need (ie hangers/stores/sims) its a risk you take being at a small base, for any airline.


BIG PICTURE PEOPLE


Originally Posted by anto125 View Post
I really hope you are right guys.
Nobody is saying they're going bankrupt soon, simply that thay have an important pilot surplus for the planning they had.
Everybody knows they're getting 200 737s max, but when?
Brexit is going to happen 99% with a no deal soon, do you have any details on that?
Let's be realistic guys, how can an airline face the future with such great unsolved points?
Mentioned numbers of crew excess may be exagerated for the reasons you mention above, but I really think we won't have an answer really soon on what's the plan other than cutting jobs...
Again I hope I'm wrong!

Last edited by UAV689; 4th Aug 2019 at 13:01.
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Old 4th Aug 2019, 13:04
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Originally Posted by UAV689 View Post
Brexit is the go too standard excuse for everything at the moment. I am sick of it.

J2 last week said itís having zero impact, brits will still holiday.

The lead time time to get crews through recruitment, through the sims, line training and to the line is ages. 6 months at least if you factor in the notice period at current employer, perhaps more for cadets. The sims are planned for the next 18months. They are still advertising daily for Ltc and Sfi...why is that....


BIG PICTURE PEOPLE



Man, I think you're really undervaluating the situation... of course the brits will holiday without caring, but jet2 has also a minority of foreign employees.
The point is that nobody has a clue of what will happen to the portugese (example) pilot working in the UK to send the brits to holiday...working visa? Retroactive? Shall he apply for it? Does company has to pay for it? We will discover this maybe in 1 month and it will be effective in less than 2. And you prime minister doesn't seem very collaborative.

Then the 737max: China Southern cancelled the orders, Air canada as well, Southwest and United extended cancellations and god knows who else.
This said I'm not stating that Ryanair is collapsing and everybody is in danger, getting the big picture it's always good, but looking at the situation from Mars comparing it with the 10 years ago situation may be a bit too far too.

As for the sims working at full regime as you say, it took one morning for them to freeze all the incoming types, it will take just another morning not to renew training contracts. Seeing cadet programs advertisement on facebook or wherever doesn't mean they're still hiring (I don't know details aboit this).
Again man, I hope so much you're right, I'm wrong and this situation will get solved in 3 months.


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Old 4th Aug 2019, 13:10
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Originally Posted by anto125 View Post
Man, I think you're really undervaluating the situation... of course the brits will holiday without caring, but jet2 has also a minority of foreign employees.
The point is that nobody has a clue of what will happen to the portugese (example) pilot working in the UK to send the brits to holiday...working visa? Retroactive? Shall he apply for it? Does company has to pay for it? We will discover this maybe in 1 month and it will be effective in less than 2. And you prime minister doesn't seem very collaborative.

Then the 737max: China Southern cancelled the orders, Air canada as well, Southwest and United extended cancellations and god knows who else.
This said I'm not stating that Ryanair is collapsing and everybody is in danger, getting the big picture it's always good, but looking at the situation from Mars comparing it with the 10 years ago situation may be a bit too far too.

As for the sims working at full regime as you say, it took one morning for them to freeze all the incoming types, it will take just another morning not to renew training contracts. Seeing cadet programs advertisement on facebook or wherever doesn't mean they're still hiring (I don't know details aboit this).
Again man, I hope so much you're right, I'm wrong and this situation will get solved in 3 months.
if you are so scared of losing your job why donít you apply for a decent company?
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Old 4th Aug 2019, 13:29
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Originally Posted by anto125 View Post
Man, I think you're really undervaluating the situation... of course the brits will holiday without caring, but jet2 has also a minority of foreign employees.
The point is that nobody has a clue of what will happen to the portugese (example) pilot working in the UK to send the brits to holiday...working visa? Retroactive? Shall he apply for it? Does company has to pay for it? We will discover this maybe in 1 month and it will be effective in less than 2. And you prime minister doesn't seem very collaborative.

Then the 737max: China Southern cancelled the orders, Air canada as well, Southwest and United extended cancellations and god knows who else.
This said I'm not stating that Ryanair is collapsing and everybody is in danger, getting the big picture it's always good, but looking at the situation from Mars comparing it with the 10 years ago situation may be a bit too far too.

As for the sims working at full regime as you say, it took one morning for them to freeze all the incoming types, it will take just another morning not to renew training contracts. Seeing cadet programs advertisement on facebook or wherever doesn't mean they're still hiring (I don't know details aboit this).
Again man, I hope so much you're right, I'm wrong and this situation will get solved in 3 months.

ryr cannot cancel the the max orders. The airbus order book is a ten year waiting list, the company cannot do anything else. Their expansion plans have painted them into a corner, let alone not having engineers, sims, etc to do anything other than 737s. Lauda in essence is a separate company.

uk government has already guaranteed rights for non Brit workers already in uk. I am certain if there was a future problem ryr would just do a paper ďbaseĒ in the home country but operate them from uk, just they do to Morocco based pilots, they work in rak without a work permit and they carry a letter that says they are based in uk...!

The uk according to their last results provide 22% of their profits, they cannot pivot away from uk, nor risk giving share to easy/ba/j2.

According to the head of training only a couple of months ago they need 1000 pilots a year. What has changed? Did I miss the announcement that they have canceled the max orders? Did I miss the change to their growth plans they have signed off with the city? Nothing has fundamentally changed.

No, itís just timing. Keep the BIG PICTURE.
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Old 4th Aug 2019, 17:16
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I see j2 just announced a roadshow at stn, and qatar another on in dub.

Eddie and mick may regret that latest video, those resignations he said have dried up may suddenly be increasing soon.
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Old 4th Aug 2019, 20:33
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Originally Posted by UAV689 View Post
I see j2 just announced a roadshow at stn, and qatar another on in dub.

Eddie and mick may regret that latest video, those resignations he said have dried up may suddenly be increasing soon.
And Iím one of those guys going to the Jet2 one.
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Old 5th Aug 2019, 09:38
  #68 (permalink)  
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These guys will never change. The company is sitting on massive reserves and can withstand a lot of turbulence and is still making big profits.

However it is all about the bottom line and what the shareholders, especially the big shareholders, want to put in their pockets and it does not include employee happiness. Their policy is that the ATO feeds the right seat, the right seat feeds the left seat and the DECs make up the shortfall. This mean a continuous outward flow and that has stopped.

Do not forget Malta Air a new separate company that looks set up to assume routes from the mainline company and probably with different T and Cs. I was a part of them for a fews years and RYR should have been a company everybody was rushing to join but that is not their game.
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 16:58
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Originally Posted by fox niner View Post
An insult to the whole country and contemptuous to the way things are run here. That is why they could not win. If you start business here, there are many opportunities to make money. But being a company/employer, that automatically makes you responsible for your workforce if you choose to close down.
Dont like that? Well, readcthe verdict.
That responsibility in NON-negotiable. I have tried to explain that a few months ago.
A company does not have to take care of its employees ONLY if it goes bust. That is why these proceedings are such a great read. It is almost funny how Ryr tried to twist the facts in Eindhoven. Looking forward to their appeal. What an outfit.
We agree on only one thing: "what an outfit".

There is a reason why young people in .nl have difficulties getting a permanent job: the ridiculous labor laws. Here in the U.S., I can get let go at any time. That means there is virtually no risk for an employer to hire me. When I still lived in .nl, I was hired on a 1-year contract and another 1-year contract and another 1-year contract, simply because once I was hired on permanently, it was pretty much impossible to get let go. Big difference. I prefer the U.S. system over the .nl system because it is way more flexible.

That said, as I pointed out before, the courts and laws in .nl are heavily favorited towards employees, as is common in all of the EUSSR. This is perhaps also the reason why the GDP per capita is $48K for .nl and $59K for the U.S.

But most importantly: yes, it is likely that RYR will lose the case again, despite being more at liberty to discuss their economic performance. But all of that is irrelevant. In the end, RYR will still win, as they will no longer have the base. The only thing that is at stake for them is the price they have to pay to close the base. The real losers in the case are the crew. They pay heavily for the only mistake they made: choosing RYR to fly for. RYR sucks, and when I fly as a passenger, I prefer to pay a little more in order to have good service and a well-paid, happy crew. I will never fly RYR.
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 17:21
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They closed the cadet recruitment on CAE website...
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 17:30
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Originally Posted by Less Hair View Post
If Ryanair has a cold the rest of the industry is bound for tuberculosis. Wonder who will be next?
MOL has a solid track record for correctly predicting the industries trends
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 18:54
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Originally Posted by ph-sbe View Post
We agree on only one thing: "what an outfit".

There is a reason why young people in .nl have difficulties getting a permanent job: the ridiculous labor laws. Here in the U.S., I can get let go at any time. That means there is virtually no risk for an employer to hire me. When I still lived in .nl, I was hired on a 1-year contract and another 1-year contract and another 1-year contract, simply because once I was hired on permanently, it was pretty much impossible to get let go. Big difference. I prefer the U.S. system over the .nl system because it is way more flexible.

That said, as I pointed out before, the courts and laws in .nl are heavily favorited towards employees, as is common in all of the EUSSR. This is perhaps also the reason why the GDP per capita is $48K for .nl and $59K for the U.S.

But most importantly: yes, it is likely that RYR will lose the case again, despite being more at liberty to discuss their economic performance. But all of that is irrelevant. In the end, RYR will still win, as they will no longer have the base. The only thing that is at stake for them is the price they have to pay to close the base. The real losers in the case are the crew. They pay heavily for the only mistake they made: choosing RYR to fly for. RYR sucks, and when I fly as a passenger, I prefer to pay a little more in order to have good service and a well-paid, happy crew. I will never fly RYR.
average working hours in the us per year: 1800
in NL: 1435
if you solely base your reasoning on GDP per capita you should take more factors into account.
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 19:39
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Back on topic. Recently crewplanning contacted me if I could work on my day off....not the first time this summer I want to add. Wanted to ask them to send one of the 1100 guys that we apparently have in excess but I did not want to end up as #1101

As long as we cannot crew our aircraft with based crews on STBY I do not think we have too many pilots. We will see what they will pull out of the magic hat, something is coming(so they want desperate pilots to say yes to everything), but it is not too many pilots. Lot's of rumors around, as well about LDM and who's money is really into that company. Plus PB leaving and nobody really tells why..... fishy fishy.

Last edited by tomuchwork; 6th Aug 2019 at 21:21.
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Old 7th Aug 2019, 10:28
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Originally Posted by N4565L View Post
MOL has a solid track record for correctly predicting the industries trends
Pretty much spot on.

Time and again he is the first out with calling the trends. Other airlines are slightly more conservative in their statements but I have heard WW from IAG and bosses of LH / AF and Easyjet concur in the past, well after the event that what MOL said was spot on.

It is not surprising that all the airlines bosses only speak together on rare occassions, there are legal reasons behind that. But the message is as much for heads of other airlines as it is for the public.

Whether people like it or not is completely and utterly irrelevant. Acting before you need to is way better than acting when you are forced to.

People complain about the Pilot shortage, forgetting that at the time MOL and Ryanair held their hands up and said we screwed up.
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Old 7th Aug 2019, 10:34
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Originally Posted by tomuchwork View Post
Plus PB leaving and nobody really tells why..... fishy fishy.
Getting an opportunity to join Easyjet as boss may have missed you.

PB was brought in to sort out a specific problem, he had the skills to do so and did so. Once that has been done the options were ultimately replacing MOL but he is not finished there yet. The company sucession plan involves moving to a different generation.

PB needed a new challenge and Easyjet came calling and he went with the thanks of MOL and Ryanair.

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Old 7th Aug 2019, 10:50
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There is a reason why young people in .nl have difficulties getting a permanent job
BS... It has been a while since you left I guess..People with a permanent job are easier to get rid of then people on contract in the first 3 years...

Back on topic: even if MOL is right (and he is a billionaire because of his right choices so far) it is the appalling way he does things and his terrible contempt of PAX that makes him the last person people should want to work for...

ps the bases he wants to close are the ones that want to strike... How more obvious do you want to make it.
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Old 7th Aug 2019, 11:41
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Originally Posted by Aso View Post
ps the bases he wants to close are the ones that want to strike... How more obvious do you want to make it.
Business want to close places with poor industrial relations.

Wow since when did that idea originate. Oh wait it has been done for last 100 plus years.

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Old 8th Aug 2019, 11:28
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Originally Posted by arc698 View Post
So they are firing 900 people because of Brexit yet at the same time hiring an equal number of pilots who are paying for their jobs through cadet programs. Where is the union when you need them?
They are not hiring anyone as all courses have been cancelled
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 12:10
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
PB needed a new challenge and Easyjet came calling and he went with the thanks of MOL and Ryanair.
Perhaps those thanks were time-limited - it's reported that Ryanair is now suing PB...
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 17:28
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Ironic.
I believe PB was hired by RYR after he took RYR to court when he ran Kerry Airport.
Mol was apparently so impressed with his performance that he offered him a job.

This just show how RYR is operated.
The madness!
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