Korean Air defends pilot who tried to drink alcohol during flight
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I seem recall many years ago, rumours of French crews on UTA (and possibly other French airlines) that would imbibe at lunch on the flight deck with a small glass of wine. This was a very French thing to do and by all accounts the amount of wine was of so small to be inconsequential but the tres Francois custom of having wine with food was upheld. I cannot verify this of course but it seemed credible at the time and we are talking the 80's here.
Jack, I wouldn't be so sure....
Admittedly not Air France/SwissAir, but 15 odd years ago at a stopover at far flung French location we declined the offer of wine with our lunch as we were flying. The subsequent incredulous look we received only made sense when we realised that the helicopter pilot flying us back to our aircraft was at our table having a glass of wine.
Admittedly not Air France/SwissAir, but 15 odd years ago at a stopover at far flung French location we declined the offer of wine with our lunch as we were flying. The subsequent incredulous look we received only made sense when we realised that the helicopter pilot flying us back to our aircraft was at our table having a glass of wine.
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Drinking wine in southern europe with every meal, and drinking beer in northern europe with every meal, has been embedded in culture for thousands of years.
So much so that even 4 year old kids were given wine or beer with each meal during the last thousands of years.
Reason?
Water was almost always contaminated with pathogens. Water has been safe to drink only since the 1960s.
The side-effect of this: European people can “handle” alcohol somewhat better than Asian people, due to evolution.
Nowadays there is no reason to give your kids any alcohol. Or for yourself to drink alcohol while working. But there is a reason why Columbus stocked hectolitres of Port wine on board when he set sail to discover America.
So much so that even 4 year old kids were given wine or beer with each meal during the last thousands of years.
Reason?
Water was almost always contaminated with pathogens. Water has been safe to drink only since the 1960s.
The side-effect of this: European people can “handle” alcohol somewhat better than Asian people, due to evolution.
Nowadays there is no reason to give your kids any alcohol. Or for yourself to drink alcohol while working. But there is a reason why Columbus stocked hectolitres of Port wine on board when he set sail to discover America.
Flew 26 years for SR short haul, long haul et al .
never saw this, so yes you could say I was there !
whereas you were in a staff restaurant, and may have, as a passenger, seen a standard “ tray” with a small bottle of wine attached, passed to the flight deck .. I assure you this would never have been consumed by the pilots .. at least as far as my 26 yrs experience
mid concerned ..
Dangerous to jump to conclusions old boy !
never saw this, so yes you could say I was there !
whereas you were in a staff restaurant, and may have, as a passenger, seen a standard “ tray” with a small bottle of wine attached, passed to the flight deck .. I assure you this would never have been consumed by the pilots .. at least as far as my 26 yrs experience
mid concerned ..
Dangerous to jump to conclusions old boy !
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Jack D
Then why was it served if not for consumption with the meal. I did some wet lease flying for Air France about 18 years ago and had to tell our cabin crew to take away the small bottle of wine which was perched on the tray in full view of the passengers before they walked the length of the cabin to bring us our standard flight deck crew meals.
Then why was it served if not for consumption with the meal. I did some wet lease flying for Air France about 18 years ago and had to tell our cabin crew to take away the small bottle of wine which was perched on the tray in full view of the passengers before they walked the length of the cabin to bring us our standard flight deck crew meals.
It was there but never consumed and indeed quite rare for the cockpit to receive a standard pax tray, on most flights first class catering was offered, no plastic trays or plonk. No one felt the need to virtue signal by having it taken away, why would you ? why were you so concerned about what others may think ? you didn’t drink it so that was that
I suppose people were were less interested in what others may do or say and were overall far less judgemental, everyone was pretty grown up about such things .. pre social media days .
I suppose people were were less interested in what others may do or say and were overall far less judgemental, everyone was pretty grown up about such things .. pre social media days .
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Business Class passenger (full fare) and a working member of various IATA working groups. And what was yours in the 70s. Or perhaps you were still in school? You will note that I said I saw meal trays bearing wine going into the cockpit but since I was not in the cockpit perhaps they were not consumed and instead saved. The ones in the staff cafeteria were def. consumed.
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Jack, I wouldn't be so sure....
Admittedly not Air France/SwissAir, but 15 odd years ago at a stopover at far flung French location we declined the offer of wine with our lunch as we were flying. The subsequent incredulous look we received only made sense when we realised that the helicopter pilot flying us back to our aircraft was at our table having a glass of wine.
Admittedly not Air France/SwissAir, but 15 odd years ago at a stopover at far flung French location we declined the offer of wine with our lunch as we were flying. The subsequent incredulous look we received only made sense when we realised that the helicopter pilot flying us back to our aircraft was at our table having a glass of wine.
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Jack D
The meals I was speaking about were specific crew meals. We had no passenger meals on board as we were short haul for them. My main concern was always that any passengers on board , especially nervous ones, would be very concerned at the thought of pilots drinking alcohol whilst flying. How would they know that it was drunk later after work? Which is exactly what used to happen to my bottle!
The meals I was speaking about were specific crew meals. We had no passenger meals on board as we were short haul for them. My main concern was always that any passengers on board , especially nervous ones, would be very concerned at the thought of pilots drinking alcohol whilst flying. How would they know that it was drunk later after work? Which is exactly what used to happen to my bottle!
Jack D
The meals I was speaking about were specific crew meals. We had no passenger meals on board as we were short haul for them. My main concern was always that any passengers on board , especially nervous ones, would be very concerned at the thought of pilots drinking alcohol whilst flying. How would they know that it was drunk later after work? Which is exactly what used to happen to my bottle!
The meals I was speaking about were specific crew meals. We had no passenger meals on board as we were short haul for them. My main concern was always that any passengers on board , especially nervous ones, would be very concerned at the thought of pilots drinking alcohol whilst flying. How would they know that it was drunk later after work? Which is exactly what used to happen to my bottle!
That phrase has been used so often, although I’ve never actually heard a Frenchman ( or woman ) say it, that it belongs in the hackneyed phrase almanac. That said, at the French base at Cazaux, where their ‘force de frappe’ guys were based, wine was available on tap at lunchtime, and regularly imbibed by the guys on QRA, in their goon suits. As it was at L’Orient and Landivisau. The mess at Nîmes-Garons has its own domaine and this was served at lunch and dinner. And bloody good it was to. So it was part of the culture then, mid 80’s or so. Suspect long gone.
Business Class passenger (full fare) and a working member of various IATA working groups. And what was yours in the 70s. Or perhaps you were still in school? You will note that I said I saw meal trays bearing wine going into the cockpit but since I was not in the cockpit perhaps they were not consumed and instead saved. The ones in the staff cafeteria were def. consumed.
I never saw alcohol consumed either before flight or in a cockpit, short or long haul. There was an eight hour bottle to throttle rule, which might be a bit lenient these days - was the same as in the RAF.
Went to some IATA meetings in GVA by the way to observe freight prices being fixed. Could it have been with you?
I was talking to the big cheese (grande fromaggio?) of an Italian government supply vessel about 10 years ago about the fact that our Aussie government equivalent had banned alcohol. His reply was, "Unfortunately its the modern way, so have we, the guys will just have to be happy with beer and wine".
Perhaps someone should start a thread about a specific Korean Air incident and the management handling of it.
Maybe Bill, Jack, Long and T should get a room, where they can mull over the good old days of yore at Swiss / AF over a bottle of vino!
Maybe Bill, Jack, Long and T should get a room, where they can mull over the good old days of yore at Swiss / AF over a bottle of vino!
But when something like that happens, drawing comparisons is to be expected.
The Air France story was a widely told myth and on that score I have no knowledge.
Was however in Seoul once for a sim ride. Check pilots smoking in the box despite request to stop etc.
There was an evident attitude that might was right throughout my visit there.
Could well explain the peanut rage and this case too.
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I can remember sitting in the staff restaurant in GVA (Swissair) in the 70s and observing aircrew in uniform along with other uniformed staff (agents, AMEs etc) enjoying their split of wine with lunch. When flying on Swissair it was not unusual to see a meal tray, containing a split of wine, being served to those in the cockpit; No accidents accredited to this. Perhaps we are now in the grasp of 'Political correctness" vs reality. 