Korean Air defends pilot who tried to drink alcohol during flight

[RevMan2]

Independent headline.
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a8996711.html

TLDR: Captain demanded alcohol twice during flight, cabin crew refused, reported 2nd incident to CSM who logged a report.

CSM demoted, captain gets invited for a chat.

KE spokesperson: “It’s true the captain made a controversial action, but it didn’t cause real trouble,”

You’d think/hope we’re past the “respect/entitlement culture” thing, but we’re not.
Fons Trompenaar’s “Riding the waves of culture” is a good read on the subject in general and Asian culture in particular

[T28B]

/not as mod
I'd like to applaud the cabin crew for sticking to their/her guns.
Did they/she get a proper pat on the back for doing the right thing?
From the article, we read this

But while the captain merely received a verbal warning, the manager was demoted for causing conflict onboard the flight.

If true, it would seem to disincentivise doing the right thing.

[Grav]

I'm quite shocked after reading the article, if all which is reported is correct, for the pilot's absurd request and expecially for the way the airline managed the incident. I expected a lot more in terms of safety culture from Korean Air. As T28B said above, it would be no surprise that the next time the crew member withnessing such inappropriate behaviour won't report it.

[Airbubba]

Here's the original Korea Times article:

Cabin crew chief demoted for leaking incident

By Park Si-soo

A Korean Air pilot allegedly attempted to drink cups of alcoholic drink during a flight in December. But the airline shrugged it off and disciplined a cabin crew chief who reprimanded the pilot and reported the case to the company, broadcaster CBS

reported on Tuesday.

The incident happened on Dec. 30 on an Amsterdam-bound Korean Air flight from Incheon, South Korea. According to CBS, the captain, while walking past a tray of welcoming drinks, tried to pick up a glass of champagne. As a cabin crew member blocked him, saying "you can't drink alcohol," the captain said, "Then you can give it (to me) in a paper cup" and then picked up a non-alcoholic drink.

Hours later, in the middle of the flight, the captain asked the cabin crew to bring "a cup of wine." The crew member refused and reported the case to the cabin crew chief.

The chief told crew members, including the co-pilot, on condition they would remain silent until landing. The decision was made out of concern that if the captain knew it might destabilize his mental state.

But the co-pilot told the captain before landing, causing an on-board altercation between the cabin crew chief and the co-pilot. After landing in Amsterdam, the cabin crew chief formally complained and wrote about the incident on the company's anonymous online message board.

Korean Air summoned the captain and the cabin crew chief. Then came a surprise ― the company closed the case with a verbal warning to the captain and demoting the cabin crew chief for being responsible for the in-flight conflict.

Korean Air called the decision "fair."

"It's true the captain made a controversial action, but it didn't cause a real trouble," a Korean Air official said.

Regarding the demotion of the cabin crew chief, the official said the chief was responsible for using "insulting words during the altercation and revealing the internal issue."

Korean Air shrugs off pilot's attempt to drink alcohol during flight

[Nomad2]

​​​​​Smells like BS to me.
Either from the press, the cabin crew or the Airline.

I've met a few thirsty pilots over the years, but zero that actually drank while on duty.

Calling BS on this one.

[RevMan2]

@ Nomad2
Let’s just take it in sequence.
Cabin crew. If it’s BS, why did the airline’s spokesperson confirm it?
Airline. Ditto
Press. Ditto

[fleigle]

Aaah, the old "shoot the messenger", not unheard of in many cultures, sadly.
f

[capngrog]

From the way this has apparently been handled by Korean Air Management, I'm surprised the Captain hasn't filed a complaint about the poor cabin service.

Cheers,
Grog

[MemberBerry]

SLF here, this made me angry enough that I filed a complaint on Korean Air's website.

[Eric Janson]

Originally Posted by Nomad2

I've met a few thirsty pilots over the years, but zero that actually drank while on duty.

I'm familiar with one case at an Airline I was working for - during a flight. Hard to believe but it has happened and will happen again.

[UltraFan]

This is very strange. If you read the article the sequence of events was:

1. Pilot asked for a drink.
2. FA told the crew chief.
3. Crew chief told the co-pilot (who sits right next to the pilot)
4. The captain is no longer mentioned, but the co-pilot and crew chief start a fight.
5. The crew chief was demoted for insulting the co-pilot and starting a fight, NOT for reporting the captain's request for a drink.
6. The story was unveiled seven months later.

After the "nuts incident" Korean Air is an easy target, but this sounds too weird to be true. The airline says captain's actions "didn't cause trouble"? No way a flag-carrier could respond like that. We only know Korean Air's reaction from the Korea Times newspaper, hardly a trustworthy source. Did they give a link to an official Korean Air statement?

I agree with people calling BS on this.

[Auxtank]

Send a strongly worded letter of complaint to here:

[email protected]

Citing the Independent article from here:
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a8996711.html

[act700]

Perhaps the Koreans should be allowed to have a ‘before descent drink’...maybe then they won’t be scared to fly faster than VLS and won’t cause traffic jams at major airports around the world!!!

[aterpster]

Originally Posted by Grav

I'm quite shocked after reading the article, if all which is reported is correct, for the pilot's absurd request and expecially for the way the airline managed the incident. I expected a lot more in terms of safety culture from Korean Air. As T28B said above, it would be no surprise that the next time the crew member withnessing such inappropriate behaviour won't report it.

Alas, I am not at all surprised. I worked on the KAL 801 accident at Guam. In three days of NTSB hearings in HNL, I got a good look at the senior management of KAL.

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by aterpster

Alas, I am not at all surprised. I worked on the KAL 801 accident at Guam. In three days of NTSB hearings in HNL, I got a good look at the senior management of KAL.

After a rather disastrous decade of the 1990s, Korean had a massive shakeup around the year 2000 - including bringing in more western expat pilots and teaching proper CRM. I was heavily involved in a KAL incident investigation about 10 years ago, when they had a very serious malfunction of a PW4000 engine on a 747-400F (a failure that wasn't supposed to be able to happen). I also got a good look at the management and saw little that I considered objectionable - either by KAL or by the ARAIB (the Korean investigative board). While the KAL maintenance people did miss some warning signs leading up the incident, they followed the Maintenance Manual and Fault Isolation Manual instructions - it would have taken some pretty intimate system knowledge to have connected the dots as to what was really happening. The KAL people were particularly interested in if the flight crew had done anything wrong (they hadn't - everything they did was per the book).
In short, the KAL of today is only distantly related to the KAL of the 1980s and 1990s. While I'm not prepared to call BS on the story, I strongly suspect that the story has been greatly distorted in the telling.

[Tomaski]

Reading the Korean Times article, I get the feeling that the cabin crew chief was primarily disciplined for leak the info to the press. Not that this is right, but some companies do have so pretty draconian non-disclosure policies.

[JumpJumpJump]

I'm going to go with...

Sequence of events is true....

... But.....

I reckon the captain put his hand out to the drinks making a bad joke, with no intent to drink, and likely in the preboarding moments with no passengers on board... The Cabin Manager pulled him up on this and they bickered a little... Later in the flight the Captain twisted the knife with the poor joke along the lines of..

Cabin Manager: Would you guys like anything to drink
Captain: Yes "Bring me wine" haha guffaw guffaw etc.

No flag carrier management would have come to this decision otherwise.

I'm not the sort to defend all pilots in all circumstances... Would be interesting to know if she was a known trouble maker by the point of conflict.

My theory is backed up by the report that the first officer and not the captain had the altercation

[Lonewolf_50]

Airbubba's link to the original Korean news outlet's article points to (at the least):
1. Discipline due to not keeping this in house.
2. Conflict / harsh words being exchanged between FO and CC.

Interesting to see the difference between what the secondary and tertiary sources reported versus whomever in Korea "got the scoop."

[Longtimer]

I can remember sitting in the staff restaurant in GVA (Swissair) in the 70s and observing aircrew in uniform along with other uniformed staff (agents, AMEs etc) enjoying their split of wine with lunch. When flying on Swissair it was not unusual to see a meal tray, containing a split of wine, being carried to those in the cockpit; (no evidence that the crews actually consumed the wine) No accidents accredited to this. Perhaps we are now in the grasp of 'Political correctness" vs reality. We all do however know that consumption of liquor by aircrews is restricted x hours before the flights.

[Jack D]

Originally Posted by Longtimer

I can remember sitting in the staff restaurant in GVA (Swissair) in the 70s and observing aircrew in uniform along with other uniformed staff (agents, AMEs etc) enjoying their split of wine with lunch. When flying on Swissair it was not unusual to see a meal tray, containing a split of wine, being served to those in the cockpit; No accidents accredited to this. Perhaps we are now in the grasp of 'Political correctness" vs reality.

This didn’t happen, no wine or any other alcohol was
ever served with cockpit food . Off duty aircrew in the
restaurant perhaps ?