Old B747SP incident in Buenos Aries
Feb 79 EZE N532PA double engine birdstrike, one engine shutdown , I hope that's it because that took too much time chasing it.
Thread Starter
Lomapaseo -
I think you may have found the original short record. Thanks
Perhaps tdracer will be along shortly who may be able to confirm and put a little more flesh around it.
Good work,
IG
Feb 79 EZE N532PA double engine birdstrike, one engine shutdown , I hope that's it because that took too much time chasing it.
Perhaps tdracer will be along shortly who may be able to confirm and put a little more flesh around it.
Good work,
IG
Last edited by Imagegear; 11th Jul 2019 at 17:25.
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I think you're being a bit harsh on the poor old beast...LHR-MIA was definitely "doable" on most typical days on a 747-100 without resorting to reclearance but there often wasn't much to spare in the way of weight. The -200 with RR engines would do the likes of LHR -SEA and, with, reclearance LHR-NRT non-stop.
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It's not your one but has a lot of similarities with the PeopleXpress B747-200 ex EGKK in the early 80's which had very similar issues at Vr, 2 engines on port side stalling and 3rd flaming, and got almost within treetop height of Russ Hill just west on Rwy26, whilst dumping everything it could. Unbelievable airmanship from the crew to save it. I saw it taxi out but didn't see the ensuing near disaster.
Well after the 767 was certified and in service - sometime in late 1983 or early '84 - they combined the 767 and 747 Propulsion groups.
Regarding the Gatwick incident. Although Frank Lorenzo's Continental was regarded as a mainstream US carrier at the time, it had a certain reputation. They had just absorbed People Express, which was a post-deregulation startup, and the 747 N605PE was still in PE livery. The aircraft came from a rather mixed background. It was an early -200B model, new to Alitalia in 1972 (the AAIB report incorrectly states 1978), traded back to Boeing in 1980. It then hung around for nearly 4 years, mainly in the desert with various leases out for the Jeddah Hadj, until it was picked up by People Express in 1984 when they were in expansion mode and used on transatlantic low-cost flights. They ran notably short of cash and eventually were sold to Mr Lorenzo and merged in a year before the incident. Continental had not been 747 operator until then so the previous methods and recently recruited staffing carried on. You might say the aircraft had not been operated by a well-resourced carrier for some 8 years prior to the event.
The early -200Bs were not a significant advance on the original -100, that came later when the RR and GE engined versions came along, which P&W then caught up with, all still designated -200B so a bit confusing. Alitalia, along with several other operators, traded in the whole of their original 747 fleet, including this one, for the new and much more capable models in 1980-81.
The early -200Bs were not a significant advance on the original -100, that came later when the RR and GE engined versions came along, which P&W then caught up with, all still designated -200B so a bit confusing. Alitalia, along with several other operators, traded in the whole of their original 747 fleet, including this one, for the new and much more capable models in 1980-81.
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Both People and Continental had some young senior captains at the time. People started up in 1981 and low time copilots in the early classes found themselves rapidly moving up as the airline expanded. Continental had an ALPA strike in 1983 and anybody willing to cross the picket line got a good number (and a bad place on the published 'list' of replacement pilots). A colleague of mine years ago got hired by Continental in his late 20's and made captain in two years.
Years later circa 2001 ALPA offered the Continental pilots with 'unfortunate dates of hire' amnesty and accepted them as dues paying members. Some now refer to themselves as 'former s**bs'.
Thread Starter
Thanks to all for your input to my original question, it seems like although a rather scary event for the SLF at the time, it did not warrant any major review or investigation. Probably when less publicity was better than too much.
I have discussed your comments with my friend who seems to be more at ease with the reasons why very little information was available to the fare paying punters, and he will leave a little more settled than when he arrived.
Thanks again,
IG
I have discussed your comments with my friend who seems to be more at ease with the reasons why very little information was available to the fare paying punters, and he will leave a little more settled than when he arrived.
Thanks again,
IG
Regarding the Gatwick incident. Although Frank Lorenzo's Continental was regarded as a mainstream US carrier at the time, it had a certain reputation. They had just absorbed People Express, which was a post-deregulation startup, and the 747 N605PE was still in PE livery. The aircraft came from a rather mixed background. It was an early -200B model, new to Alitalia in 1972 (the AAIB report incorrectly states 1978), traded back to Boeing in 1980. It then hung around for nearly 4 years, mainly in the desert with various leases out for the Jeddah Hadj, until it was picked up by People Express in 1984 when they were in expansion mode and used on transatlantic low-cost flights. They ran notably short of cash and eventually were sold to Mr Lorenzo and merged in a year before the incident. Continental had not been 747 operator until then so the previous methods and recently recruited staffing carried on. You might say the aircraft had not been operated by a well-resourced carrier for some 8 years prior to the event.
The early -200Bs were not a significant advance on the original -100, that came later when the RR and GE engined versions came along, which P&W then caught up with, all still designated -200B so a bit confusing. Alitalia, along with several other operators, traded in the whole of their original 747 fleet, including this one, for the new and much more capable models in 1980-81.
The early -200Bs were not a significant advance on the original -100, that came later when the RR and GE engined versions came along, which P&W then caught up with, all still designated -200B so a bit confusing. Alitalia, along with several other operators, traded in the whole of their original 747 fleet, including this one, for the new and much more capable models in 1980-81.
Not all true
Continental had operated 747’s in the past, four new -124 variants were delivered to the airline and operated between 1971 and 1974, then the price of fuel saw them replaced by the DC10
That was the queen of the skies ‘first life’ at Cal, then several used models rejoined the fleet with the PE merger in the ‘80’s
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By the way, does anybody know if it was common practice in the industry at that point of time to publish inhouse such kind of a safety related product comparable to "Crosscheck"? For example at AA, TW, BA, LH, JP, QF... Thanks!
Thanks for the link to Crosscheck, quite interesting.
Also the other Pan Am manuals and publications are worth a look. A picture of an era in air transport.
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https://merrick.library.miami.edu/cd...d/60984/rec/49 is a link to the specific issue.
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https://merrick.library.miami.edu/cd...d/60984/rec/49 is a link to the specific issue.
Thread Starter
Well Gentlemen,
I never fail to be amazed that after so many years, Pprune membership has again come up trumps to put flesh on the bones of this incident.
Many people must have spent considerable time researching the challenge, to deliver a very useful outcome.I will be communicating the information to my friend who no doubt will take some satisfaction that the incident appears to have been well managed, and perhaps any latent fears he may have had, are put to rest.
My sincere thanks to everyone,
Imagegear
I never fail to be amazed that after so many years, Pprune membership has again come up trumps to put flesh on the bones of this incident.
Many people must have spent considerable time researching the challenge, to deliver a very useful outcome.I will be communicating the information to my friend who no doubt will take some satisfaction that the incident appears to have been well managed, and perhaps any latent fears he may have had, are put to rest.
My sincere thanks to everyone,
Imagegear
