Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Boeing falsified records for 787 jet sold to Air Canada. It developed a fuel leak

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Boeing falsified records for 787 jet sold to Air Canada. It developed a fuel leak

Old 28th Jun 2019, 14:05
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seoul
Posts: 103
Boeing falsified records for 787 jet sold to Air Canada. It developed a fuel leak

Title says it all

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/boe...leak-1.5193550

Apologies if posted already. Source CBC, June 28 2019

TME
TeachMe is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2019, 14:14
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Canada
Age: 61
Posts: 102
And this is why Manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to self certify
roybert is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2019, 14:29
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,257
Originally Posted by roybert View Post
And this is why Manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to self certify
Who else would certify their complex aircraft?

aterpster is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2019, 14:44
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 11,130
Boeing falsified records for 787 jet sold to Air Canada. It developed a fuel leak

Originally Posted by TeachMe View Post
Title says it all
The title refers to two separate events. While they may be connected, the article doesn't do a very good job of demonstrating a link between them.

Aircraft can develop fuel leaks without falsification of tech records.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2019, 16:45
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bristol
Posts: 16
The question is did the company knowingly falsify that some corrective action had been done when it had not. I doubt it, but if proven should be difficult discussion
If however its a system error that caused the release without the work being done then the process and the approval of people involved need a review. The FAA should ensure that the system is in place. The company ensures that it is being followed on a daily basis.

And fuel leaks are not that unusual!
Cheltman is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2019, 17:00
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by TeachMe View Post
Title says it all

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/boe...leak-1.5193550

Apologies if posted already. Source CBC, June 28 2019

TME
The biggest mistake is to read the title and assume that something in that article corraborates that title. Journalism is almost nonexistent nowadays, and the art of journalism was sold for the art of creating click-bait titles that lead nowhere. However they do generate clicks and ad revenue, this is the biz model we stuck with...
Sunamer is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2019, 17:06
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by roybert View Post
And this is why Manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to self certify
who else would have the intimate knowledge of the systems tho? If the aircraft crashes and it is proven it was manufacturer's fault, who pays in court? The manufacturer. So, it is an incentive for them to try to be as thorough as possible, while still pushing the envelop to stay competitive.
On the other hand the people in the govt does not care if the govt gets sued for incorrectly done certification, because the govt uses YOUR money to pay for any lawsuit and any compensatory damages will come from the taxes.
Sunamer is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2019, 18:02
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ireland
Posts: 595
Originally Posted by Sunamer View Post

who else would have the intimate knowledge of the systems tho?
That makes as much (or as little) sense as saying that banks and financial institutions should regulate themselves as they have the most intimate knowledge of their systems.
Speed of Sound is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2019, 18:05
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: EDSP
Posts: 209
This is more about morale on the shop floor than about certification business. No good though.
BDAttitude is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2019, 18:47
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Paisley, Florida USA
Posts: 136
Originally Posted by Sunamer View Post


The biggest mistake is to read the title and assume that something in that article corraborates that title. Journalism is almost nonexistent nowadays, and the art of journalism was sold for the art of creating click-bait titles that lead nowhere. However they do generate clicks and ad revenue, this is the biz model we stuck with...
I agree. I'm not sure I understand this sentence, which seems to be the heart of the article: "The records stated that manufacturing work had been completed when it had not." Does this mean that "work" was never completed, or that "work" was not completed on the date recorded? The article never did describe the "work" that caused the fuel leak or how the faulty documentation covered up the improperly performed "work". Does anyone on this forum have information on the Air Canada 787 fuel leak?

Cheers,
Grog
capngrog is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2019, 18:48
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ireland
Posts: 595
Originally Posted by BDAttitude View Post
This is more about morale on the shop floor than about certification business. No good though.
That is a fair point. Someone not completing a job and a supervisor signing it off as having been done, is something that could happen in any workplace. It is only really a Boeing thing if Boeing either encouraged it or knew about it and took no action.

There is plenty to criticise Boeing for at the moment without going after spurious claims.
Speed of Sound is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2019, 20:00
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Canada
Age: 61
Posts: 102
Originally Posted by aterpster View Post
Who else would certify their complex aircraft?
aterpster I understand your point but at the same time who says that the complex aircraft that Boeing and Airbus are creating are safe in the first place. As in all things as the systems become more complex the people who use and approve them need to develop and advance in their understanding of the systems and programs. This would or should be true with the individuals doing the certification of these aircraft and pilots. In my current position I can't design a process and then approve it as being acceptable so why should Manufacturers be permitted to do this.
Roybert
roybert is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2019, 20:39
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: FR
Posts: 222
Originally Posted by aterpster View Post
Who else would certify their complex aircraft?
Customers should be told when the Regulator could not be bothered to go into details.
pax2908 is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2019, 22:07
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: my easychair
Posts: 31
right on the money Sunamer. I have never seen a media report, either print or TV present a story correctly. As you say anything to sell. Mostly sleeze balls starting with cnn.
slack is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2019, 22:16
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: my easychair
Posts: 31
Pax 2908 Absolutely correct. Was a boeing fan big time. Flew 37 and 67. Now I see boeing for what they are just another money grubbing big corp. Happily retired . Not enough money in the world to bring me back. Just keep the pension check coming. LOL
slack is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2019, 01:26
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Auckland, NZ
Age: 75
Posts: 475
Originally Posted by slack View Post
right on the money Sunamer. I have never seen a media report, either print or TV present a story correctly. As you say anything to sell. Mostly sleeze balls starting with cnn.
Another wonder of the modern age brought to you by unregulated capitalism. It is universally agreed on PPRuNe that journalism has been corrupted by the search for profit; why should aircraft manufacturing be different?
FlightlessParrot is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2019, 01:31
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,091
Originally Posted by Sunamer View Post


who else would have the intimate knowledge of the systems tho? If the aircraft crashes and it is proven it was manufacturer's fault, who pays in court? The manufacturer. So, it is an incentive for them to try to be as thorough as possible, while still pushing the envelop to stay competitive.
On the other hand the people in the govt does not care if the govt gets sued for incorrectly done certification, because the govt uses YOUR money to pay for any lawsuit and any compensatory damages will come from the taxes.
Well, I guess Boeing’s abomination they called MCAS was a shining example of the integrity of that “intimate knowledge”!
KRUSTY 34 is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2019, 02:45
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada/Malaysia
Age: 79
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by KRUSTY 34 View Post


Well, I guess Boeing’s abomination they called MCAS was a shining example of the integrity of that “intimate knowledge”!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...d=premium-asia

...this doesn't help...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKCN1TT360

...Boeing "things" heating up?
BlankBox is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2019, 03:16
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 3.5 from TD
Posts: 1,000
Another wonder of the modern age brought to you by unregulated capitalism.
Why are you blaming Capitalism? Government protectionism and suppression of competition is not Capitalism.

If Capitalism where allowed to flourish there would be 5 or 6 major manufacturers out there competing for airline’s business, one upping each other to build the best airliner.

Instead, we get a bloated, heavily regulated and protected company that is “too big to fail” and operates accordingly.

You want to blame something, blame government interventionists and their ever increasing size.
Sqwak7700 is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2019, 03:21
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 138
Originally Posted by Speed of Sound View Post


That makes as much (or as little) sense as saying that banks and financial institutions should regulate themselves as they have the most intimate knowledge of their systems.
Exactly!! 🙄
Old Dogs is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.