KC 46 tanker landing at Paris Airshow
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Join Date: Feb 2015
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... . For a while every GE powered 747-400 had autostart - in fact we didn't even have drawings for a non-autostart 747-400/CF6-80C2. Then someone came in, ordered a couple GE powered 747-400s, but declined the autostart option. Cost a small fortune to develop and certify the configuration, just so that we could charge less for the aircraft.
I always figured we should have simply had the sales team tell them we were having a limited time special and would throw in autostart for free...
I always figured we should have simply had the sales team tell them we were having a limited time special and would throw in autostart for free...
Once upon a time, novice BOAC VC10 pilots flew something like 40 landings under training, with plenty of manual circuit flying. Whereas today the emphasis appears to be on SOPs and autoflight systems monitoring, with aircraft largely flying themselves, so much so that the airlines have discouraged much in the way of manual flying skills, deeming them unnecessary in day-to-day flying. As a result , some 'children of the magenta' would be quite out of their depth flying something as simple as a visual circuit.
Some military operations require a higher degree of manual flying, it is true. But emphatically not the type of approach flown by that KC-46A at Paris. Start the final turn with the RW threshold 45 deg behind you, control speed, rate of descent and configuration throughout the turn until you roll out on the centreline at about 600ft 2 miles out fully configured and stabilised at the correct speed. Not exactly demanding. But something that KC-46A crew seemed to be unable to manage.
Some military operations require a higher degree of manual flying, it is true. But emphatically not the type of approach flown by that KC-46A at Paris. Start the final turn with the RW threshold 45 deg behind you, control speed, rate of descent and configuration throughout the turn until you roll out on the centreline at about 600ft 2 miles out fully configured and stabilised at the correct speed. Not exactly demanding. But something that KC-46A crew seemed to be unable to manage.
Nearly correct Beagle! on my Command Course at Prestwick I had 29 landings, a real cross country for a final Route Check. Prestwick -Newcastle diverted to Shannon due “disruptive pax” with engine failure simulated en route. Flew a VC10 to Keflavik for the day with a bunch of us to find some real X Wind landings, I think we had to have min 25 kt to qualify.
On the subsequent 6 month new Capt. handling Check at Stansted, the final circuit was briefed by the very Senior ex WWII TC as, “ Show me the tightest visual circuit you can do, don’t be below 500 lined up on final”. Stansted was still a quiet back country airport then!
Different times!!
don’t be below 500 lined up on final
I can see why the opinions vary so much on this poor (unfairly I think) maligned dude.
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Hmmm. Not trying to one up.....but we taught roll out at 300' and a mile from touchdown in the 727 aircraft (not simulator)....and that was the regulator's aircraft. Used 300 and a mile for no-flaps and 2-engine outs also, just wider downwinds. Generally to touch-and-goes and right back around. Trainee would generally get 10 or more landings a day.
I can see why the opinions vary so much on this poor (unfairly I think) maligned dude.
I can see why the opinions vary so much on this poor (unfairly I think) maligned dude.
Due to the geometry of the thresholds, this manoeuvre would only start below 300ft. Only a small amount of bank was required but the glide path had also to be adjusted.
Occasionally one could be asked by ATC quite far out whether a Swing over to 14 from 16 could be made for traffic reasons. This was more demanding and needed more ROD. Needless to say only in VMC.
bill fly,
That's another excellent example of why 'one-size doesn't fit all' at all airports at all times.
The current 'stabilized approach' guidance was primarily driven by 'misadventures' in thrust control and not bank excursions....and whose to say at any moment exactly where 'normal bracketing' becomes 'abnormal bracketing'. In the past we used to train circling at altitudes below 1000', with turns done 15 seconds beyond the abeam to accommodate the visibility minimums, resulting in roll-outs inside 1 mile, with maybe room for one reversal in the event of an overshot centerline. If taught properly and flown precisely in line with the training guidance it was generally doable. But you also tried to give trainees the room to determine what they could cope with and what they would recognize in the future as requiring 'conservative' judgement and not worth attempting.
For better or worse, a lot of those options are not available anymore...I always avoided the 'policy' level and just adhered to whatever guidance was in place.....but there are still airports in the CONUS & Alaska where if you roll-out at 500' and 1 and 2/3 mile out VMC, you'll be in the terrain.
That's another excellent example of why 'one-size doesn't fit all' at all airports at all times.
The current 'stabilized approach' guidance was primarily driven by 'misadventures' in thrust control and not bank excursions....and whose to say at any moment exactly where 'normal bracketing' becomes 'abnormal bracketing'. In the past we used to train circling at altitudes below 1000', with turns done 15 seconds beyond the abeam to accommodate the visibility minimums, resulting in roll-outs inside 1 mile, with maybe room for one reversal in the event of an overshot centerline. If taught properly and flown precisely in line with the training guidance it was generally doable. But you also tried to give trainees the room to determine what they could cope with and what they would recognize in the future as requiring 'conservative' judgement and not worth attempting.
For better or worse, a lot of those options are not available anymore...I always avoided the 'policy' level and just adhered to whatever guidance was in place.....but there are still airports in the CONUS & Alaska where if you roll-out at 500' and 1 and 2/3 mile out VMC, you'll be in the terrain.
