IcelandAir fires Boeing 737 Max Pilots

[racedo]

Bet Ryanair HR have already been on the phone.

[yanrair]

Originally Posted by krautland

for two weeks, until something else takes over the news of the day.

Indeed. Ask any of your pals the name of the airline who's pilot that flew into the Alps a couple of years back. Nobody knows that I have asked.
Then ask them what that airline is called now! Same. Passengers have very short memories esp if names gets changed. DC10 became MD 11.
Ask them about the plane (737) lost with all lives at Amsterdam ten years ago on final approach. Which airline and why? Nobody even knows it happened and that is only down the road.

I think the 737 Max will be rebranded and I hope it has a long and safe future so that by the time it ends its life in about 25 years from now, say 2050, it will have been flying for nearly a century using the same airframe and lot of similar hardware that was on the 707.
I too feel sorry for those guys in Iceland. It is a cut throat business esp. in certain sectors of the business. I was lucky to have flown for the 35-40 happy years from the 707 to the 747-400 with a legacy airline (as they seem to be called) and some of it before LCC was a twinkle in someone's eye!
That said the LCCs did shake up the dinosaurs with benefits for all of us and for that I think we are all very grateful. BA / IAG this year made more money than its nearest LCC rival after a major shake up. So dinosaurs can indeed give birth to gazelles. They have crossed the aviation equivalent of the species barrier which the LCCs have always maintained cannot happen.
Cheers
Y

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by yanrair

Ask them about the plane (737) lost with all lives at Amsterdam ten years ago on final approach. Which airline and why?

Really ???

[nevillestyke]

Past History.

Originally Posted by ph-sbe

So, to those who don't know the difference: being fired usually means that your employment is being terminated "for cause", meaning you ****** up and the company decided to punish you with termination. This usually happens only after you don't perform, or kick your manager in the face for example. If you have been fired, future employers will think twice before hiring you.

I know one pilot who was fired, following a difference of opinion with RYR. His subsequent airline employer did NOT, apparently, have to think twice, before taking him on.

[ironbutt57]

DC=10 went on to be successful in its own right for many years, MD-11 was much later on...

[Loose rivets]

"...would be terminating the pilots during a training session..."
Are they actually planning to fail the recurrent check so they have an excuse to fire the pilots?

Any attempt to use such an obscene method of cost cutting should be stamped on with a unified ferocity that would bring tears to the eyes of their employers. I was not affected, but I remember the so-called Teesside massacre, where 32 pilots were suddenly not quite good enough to fly (what was then, a very large aircraft.)

[golfyankeesierra]

Originally Posted by Livesinafield

"Made redundant" is very different from fired they are two different things completely.

I wonder how the ”redundant” pilots will feel about that..

[ironbutt57]

Originally Posted by Meester proach

i think he’s trying to say they’ll have 737NG TR anyway, so won’t be short of offers for the old skool version. I hope they get something soon.

he's trying to say somebody is wrong, and to prove himself clever by correcting them...very irritating..in fact there is no "NG" type rating either...the rating as per Boeing and the FAA is B737, since that is who he quoted.

[Smythe]

I'm not mistaken the aircraft are actually the 737-8 and 737-9

3 letter codes are 38M and 39M....they are still in meetings on the MAX 10!

[FRogge]

So off topic, but I need to correct when I see wrong information: ICAO 4 letter code: B38M, IATA 3 letter code: 7M8

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by FRogge

So off topic, but I need to correct when I see wrong information: ICAO 4 letter code: B38M, IATA 3 letter code: 7M8

And while we're all in OT pedantic mode, ICAO type designators aren't necessarily 4-letter (or even 4-character), F70 being an obvious example.

[yanrair]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

Really ???

Ref Crash AMS 10 years ago that passengers don't remember...........

Really what Dave? My Course qualification as a psychic have expired!
Y

[yanrair]

Originally Posted by nevillestyke

I know one pilot who was fired, following a difference of opinion with RYR. His subsequent airline employer did NOT, apparently, have to think twice, before taking him on.

When fired or more politely "retiring " from an airline, the hiring airline can be very easy -going on the application at a time of pilot shortage to the extent that if you have a licence on type, that can be as far as it goes. I know guys who are flying in Europe having left their previous airline, shall we say, not on the best of terms. Now, if the departure from the previous airline was say, due to dastardly union activity that doesn't matter to the hiring airline probably. But if it was because the pilot wasn't actually very good...............
Cheers
Y

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by yanrair

Ask them about the plane (737) lost with all lives at Amsterdam ten years ago on final approach.

I was wondering which accident that was, as it doesn't ring any bells.

[tubby linton]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turk...es_Flight_1951 Nine dead including the three pilots.

[KriVa]

Originally Posted by iggy

"...would be terminating the pilots during a training session..."

Are they actually planning to fail the recurrent check so they have an excuse to fire the pilots?

I actually think you needed to quote that sentence pretty much in its entirety to get the correct meaning from it:
Icelandair made the announcement that it would be terminating 45 of its 737 MAX pilots during a training session.
or, put differently:
Icelandair made the announcement, that it would be terminating 45 of its 737 MAX pilots, during a training session.

[Pistonprop]

Yanrair, if you want to make a point, don't taint it with incorrect information. It only invalidates you as a reliable source in these forums. The great majority of passengers survived that accident in Amsrerdam.

[ironbutt57]

Originally Posted by tubby linton

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turk...es_Flight_1951 Nine dead including the three pilots.

actually interesting he brought that up, yet another single-point (Capts RADALT) systems failure that was endemic to the 737 for a time, causing the A/T system to go to "retard" mode too early when on approach, the Turks were unstable and didn't catch it...several other airlines managed to...ya think Boeing might have learned from a single-point failure there, but looks not to be the case

[SteinarN]

Originally Posted by ironbutt57

actually interesting he brought that up, yet another single-point (Capts RADALT) systems failure that was endemic to the 737 for a time, causing the A/T system to go to "retard" mode too early when on approach, the Turks were unstable and didn't catch it...several other airlines managed to...ya think Boeing might have learned from a single-point failure there, but looks not to be the case

I was thinking the same. And also in this case there actually are TWO radioaltimeters on the aircraft, but only one used at a time, hence no cross check or other validation on the reasonability or correctness of the measured value.

[MurphyWasRight]

Originally Posted by Livesinafield
"Made redundant" is very different from fired they are two different things completely.

Originally Posted by golfyankeesierra

I wonder how the ”redundant” pilots will feel about that..

A historical note on 'fired' is that it was originally an euphemism for "discharged" which I believe covered both "made redundant / laid off" and "let go for cause", back then there was not as much a distinction since the employer held all the cards.
As others have pointed out modern usage of fired has much different connotation than laid off.

In the USA at least in some states "termination for cause" (aka fired) can affect eligibility for unemployment benefits.
Needles to say that is a quagmire since employers unemployment insurance rates are determined in part by their lay off history so the sleazy ones will try anything to avoid the hit.