Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

China Southern A380 -- Hail damage to radome, cockpit windows, leading edge surfaces

Wikiposts
Search
Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

China Southern A380 -- Hail damage to radome, cockpit windows, leading edge surfaces

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 27th May 2019, 16:27
  #1 (permalink)  
Everything is under control.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
China Southern A380 -- Hail damage to radome, cockpit windows, leading edge surfaces

"On the 26th of May 2019, a China Southern Airlines Airbus A380 encountered a nasty hail storm, causing significant damage to the radome, cockpit windows and leading edge surfaces. The aircraft, registered B-6140, was performing flight CZ3101 from Guangzhou to Beijing and was cruising at 37,100ft when it entered a nasty weather system."

https://samchui.com/2019/05/27/china-southern-airlines-airbus-a380-receives-significant-hail-damage/


Eboy is offline  
Old 27th May 2019, 19:39
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: 60 north
Age: 59
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There is already a thread on scraping the A380.
Is this the " How to" thread?
BluSdUp is offline  
Old 27th May 2019, 19:59
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I just wonder if it was avoidable? Then again I seem to remember reading that even wx track deviations were not always easy in that part of the world. Is that true?
Hotel Tango is offline  
Old 27th May 2019, 20:06
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: FL510
Posts: 910
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Often not approved.
Because only the airways themselves are civilian airspace, so diversion off track means coordination with military ATC will be necessary.
The trick is to tell them you'll be holding on the airway, waiting for their clearance to avoid weather.
Either they provide it or eventually the cell will move off the airway...
safelife is offline  
Old 28th May 2019, 05:36
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Jakarta
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You take enough gas to fly 2 hours around weather OR in your best Mandarin you tell them I am going left or right.
mach92 is offline  
Old 28th May 2019, 07:22
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Miami
Age: 59
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BluSdUp
There is already a thread on scraping the A380.
Is this the " How to" thread?
hahahahaha 😂😂
Jack330 is offline  
Old 28th May 2019, 07:25
  #7 (permalink)  
swh

Eidolon
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Some hole
Posts: 2,175
Received 24 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by safelife
Often not approved.
Because only the airways themselves are civilian airspace, so diversion off track means coordination with military ATC will be necessary.
The trick is to tell them you'll be holding on the airway, waiting for their clearance to avoid weather.
Either they provide it or eventually the cell will move off the airway...
ATC are not obligated anywhere to approve Wx deviation “requests”. If you request, and the request is disapproved, declare PAN PAN, and make the deviation. ATC will then approve you. Civil airspace is limited in China, ATC have their hands tied until you use the magic words PAN PAN.

No need for enroute holding, doing something like that will just result in a requirement to descend down low until you have no fuel left.

The hail damage is more likely due to people not being able to use a Wx radar properly.
swh is offline  
Old 28th May 2019, 08:54
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: blue earch
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Grrr Hailstones shatter an Airbus A380

Hailstones shatter an Airbus A380's windscreen at 37,000ft, forcing the pilot to issue a mayday call.
The China Southern Airlines flight from Guangzhou Baiyun Int'l was en-route to Beijing Int'l when the pilot issued a mayday call.
flysmiless is offline  
Old 28th May 2019, 10:53
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pictures look suitably dramatic, definitely makes your day "interesting". Well done to crew for managing the situation to a positive conclusion.

DDDriver is offline  
Old 28th May 2019, 14:59
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hail can be found several thousand feet ABOVE CBs, and does not show on radar.
fab777 is offline  
Old 28th May 2019, 15:58
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Usually on top
Posts: 176
Received 16 Likes on 6 Posts
...which is why we deviate > 40NM UPWIND of appreciable cells... and with the 3D WXR in the 380 there really is no excuse for not having seen what's brewing in the bottom, even if the top doesn't paint (which is normal). This is not likely excusable in cruise. Different story in an approach/departure situation.

And here's the corresponding satellite imagery and flight path at 2:50 UTC:

and at UT 3:00:

and at 03:10 UTC:


Last edited by physicus; 28th May 2019 at 16:38. Reason: added imagery
physicus is offline  
Old 28th May 2019, 23:49
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,061
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
I don't fly in China so I don't know what the repercussions are for deviating from clearance, but if they won't clear you to avoid a CB, surely you just do it and let them deal with it? Chuck-in a Mayday if you like as it will be recorded, 'Mayday Mayday Mayday, xxx123 turning left heading 080 to avoid weather' and save yourself rather than wreck an aircraft or destroy one to the point it's unflyable.

If the repercussions are such that they'd shoot you down for deviating from a clearance, and you think it's acceptable to fly through that airspace with that knowledge, then you really aren't worth your stripes.
giggitygiggity is offline  
Old 29th May 2019, 08:22
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Hot zone
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Globocnik
Would it were that easy. You patently don’t operate in Chinese airspace very often if at all. Yes. Mayday call. And all the ****e that comes afterwards. Chinese airspace is the most obstructive and unhelpful in the world.
Give me India any day..at least they are trying their level best to accommodate you as opposed to trying to kill you.
XYZ123 require weather deviation right 20 miles.
ATC. Unable
XYZ123 I say again due weather we require 20miles right.
ATC. Unable.
Panpan Panpan Panpan XYZ123 due weather deviating right 20 miles.

Simple. Fill out the paperwork later rather than trash an airframe or spiral out of a Cb.

Yes I do fly in China.
Hope you're not my pilot Globo
Maisk Rotum is offline  
Old 29th May 2019, 09:25
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Asia
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Which is it?

Avoid possible hail by 40 NM upwind or 20 NM upwind?
slate100 is offline  
Old 29th May 2019, 11:12
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I never had big issue for weather avoidance in China airspace but in some airways you can only dodge the weather on one side which can be quite frustrating. They will happily make you fly 100 miles left of track when only 10 miles right would be enough but due to the tension with Taiwan or Military activities ... “CAN NOT!” Not ATC fault, they just follow orders.
Some ATC like Guangzhou have weather radar and will vector you around the weather without asking your opinion.
pineteam is offline  
Old 29th May 2019, 13:04
  #16 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 63
Posts: 5,614
Received 60 Likes on 43 Posts
Discussion on topic, not about ATC and routing in China please.....
Pilot DAR is offline  
Old 29th May 2019, 21:15
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,061
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Globocnik
Would it were that easy. You patently don’t operate in Chinese airspace very often if at all. Yes. Mayday call. And all the ****e that comes afterwards. Chinese airspace is the most obstructive and unhelpful in the world.
Give me India any day..at least they are trying their level best to accommodate you as opposed to trying to kill you.
I said I don’t fly in China. Perhaps re-read my message. So you’d rather trash an airframe and endanger your passengers than deal with the ‘****e’ that comes after a mayday call. You shouldn’t be flying if you’re afraid to make a safety call because involves paperwork/explanation.

You might prefer to fly in India, that’s fine. But if China is too dangerous to fly through then you shouldn’t be doing it.
giggitygiggity is offline  
Old 29th May 2019, 21:18
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,061
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Pilot DAR
Discussion on topic, not about ATC and routing in China please.....
Is discussing Chinese atc breaking some pprune rule? That is clearly on topic. People are wondering whether they flew through a CB because they couldn’t get clearance around a a CB, as apart from negligence, there is no other possible reason they wouldn’t avoid a CB. How is that off topic moderator? Of course that is speculation, but if you were to ban speculation, then this RUMOUR forum would be pretty empty?!
giggitygiggity is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 00:10
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Let's see - A) paperwork for simple WX deviation ( pan ) , if any , or B) paperwork explaining serious damage to airframe ?
fatbus is offline  
Old 30th May 2019, 03:23
  #20 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 63
Posts: 5,614
Received 60 Likes on 43 Posts
How is that off topic moderator?
It's not so much off topic, just posters were getting rather rude to each other, and demeaning ATC. Contribute to the topic, and don't knock the other poster.
Pilot DAR is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.