MAX’s Return Delayed by FAA Reevaluation of 737 Safety Procedures
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: On the Ground
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Or ANYTHING to let the pilots know it was there, and how it worked.
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Mass
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I haven't seen an explanation of why this detail was not included in the AD.
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: London, UK
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Relevant insofar as the FAA's credibility has taken a dent, it is perhaps worth re-posting a link to one of the interviews with DP Davies, the former ARB/CAA certification test pilot.
The fourth and final podcast covers Concorde and the British V-bombers. But listen on to about the 35 minute mark for his frank views on the FAA - even in 1992 he was shall we say decidedly skeptical...
I can't post a URL I'm afraid, but a quick search (the interviews are on aerosociety - dot - com) will find them.
The fourth and final podcast covers Concorde and the British V-bombers. But listen on to about the 35 minute mark for his frank views on the FAA - even in 1992 he was shall we say decidedly skeptical...
I can't post a URL I'm afraid, but a quick search (the interviews are on aerosociety - dot - com) will find them.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Boston
Age: 73
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Relevant insofar as the FAA's credibility has taken a dent, it is perhaps worth re-posting a link to one of the interviews with DP Davies, the former ARB/CAA certification test pilot.
The fourth and final podcast covers Concorde and the British V-bombers. But listen on to about the 35 minute mark for his frank views on the FAA - even in 1992 he was shall we say decidedly skeptical...
I can't post a URL I'm afraid, but a quick search (the interviews are on aerosociety - dot - com) will find them.
The fourth and final podcast covers Concorde and the British V-bombers. But listen on to about the 35 minute mark for his frank views on the FAA - even in 1992 he was shall we say decidedly skeptical...
I can't post a URL I'm afraid, but a quick search (the interviews are on aerosociety - dot - com) will find them.
Salute!
From Tak....
Gotta tellya that I would hunt down whoever implemented an undocumented/advertised flight control modification to the plane I flew for 20 years or so, and enjoyed. The meeting would not be pleasant. My Special Ops background comes into play - "You can run, but you'll only die tired!"
Regardless of how MCAS was supposed to work, the thing needed to be advertised to we lowly pilots just in case that the one in a zillion chance it would acvtivate without being at "x" AoA, and well short of an actual stall AoA ( although MCAS is not an "anti-stall" feature, huh?) My God. Beam Me Up!!!
Gums sends...
From Tak....
Or ANYTHING to let the pilots know it was there, and how it worked.
Regardless of how MCAS was supposed to work, the thing needed to be advertised to we lowly pilots just in case that the one in a zillion chance it would acvtivate without being at "x" AoA, and well short of an actual stall AoA ( although MCAS is not an "anti-stall" feature, huh?) My God. Beam Me Up!!!
Gums sends...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Under the radar, over the rainbow
Posts: 788
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 76
Posts: 821
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There was an interesting programme on Chan 4 (UK TV) last night on this topic. Much was made of the 2 accidents but the interesting bits involved two 737 pilots, one American and one British, in a simulator and they were caught out by the action of MCAS. After the instructions re operating the trim cut out switches were added to the relevant instructions, they still failed to "save" the aircraft. The reason seems to have been due to their having operating the cut out switches too late. It was suggested that, for the cut out switches to be effective, they have to be operated within 4 seconds of the onset of the upset and they took a little longer. By the time they threw the switches, the aircraft was diving toward the ground so fast that manual efforts to recover by heaving on the yoke came to nothing. The aerodynamic force being exerted on the stabilizer was such that they were unable to overcome it.
21 Nov 10pm 4Seven
Sunday 9pm 4Seven
Wed 27 nov 11:05pm Ch 4
Tue 3 Dec 2:20am 4seven
Tue 3 Dec 11:05pm 4seven
the interesting bits involved two 737 pilots, one American and one British, in a simulator and they were caught out by the action of MCAS
I watched C4 last night and there was not much new in it. I was under the impression that one of the problems with the Ethiopian crash was that the pilots left the thrust levers at climb power and did not slow the aircraft down in order to use the manual trim wheel effectively which as speed increased became ever more problematic - the simulator reconstruction did not appear to feature any reduction in thrust. Please feel free to correct me if I am barking up the wrong tree !
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Shoreham
Age: 72
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the B737NG simulator...If the pilot flying is applying nose up elevator it is much harder for the pilot monitoring to move the manual stabiliser trim wheel.
If the pilot flying offloads the elevator it is much easier to apply manual trim...not sure if this applies at VNE.
Stab trim cutoff, manual trim (offload elevator if possible), < 250 knots flaps 1 then 5 (nose up pitch)?
If the pilot flying offloads the elevator it is much easier to apply manual trim...not sure if this applies at VNE.
Stab trim cutoff, manual trim (offload elevator if possible), < 250 knots flaps 1 then 5 (nose up pitch)?
(pax). I can't say I found the programme very instructive, been covered in this thread with less emotion. Don't think the significance of excess speed on manual inputs, or using the cut outs when already badly out of trim, were made but I guess it suited the intended audience.
In the B737NG simulator...If the pilot flying is applying nose up elevator it is much harder for the pilot monitoring to move the manual stabiliser trim wheel.
If the pilot flying offloads the elevator it is much easier to apply manual trim...not sure if this applies at VNE.
Stab trim cutoff, manual trim (offload elevator if possible), < 250 knots flaps 1 then 5 (nose up pitch)?
If the pilot flying offloads the elevator it is much easier to apply manual trim...not sure if this applies at VNE.
Stab trim cutoff, manual trim (offload elevator if possible), < 250 knots flaps 1 then 5 (nose up pitch)?
Self preservation cuts in with instinctive action to PULL, just as it was with the Valiant when training for a runaway stab.
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: On the Ground
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heading downhill, at rapid ROD, close to the ground, no pilot is going to release up elevator to try and use manual trim !!!!!
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Seaford DE
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SideNote -- re the Boeing BS described as " Now, according to the Boeing website, it has over 45,000 engineers spread throughout the entire company. Such a deep roster of talent, the aerospace company has incredibly deep and specific expertise for new designs and to manage the safety and airworthiness of the nearly 14,000 Boeing airplanes flying today."
look up the following in the JDA Journal "FAA Insight and Aviation . . ."
look up the following in the JDA Journal "FAA Insight and Aviation . . ."
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Florida
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boeing has a plane in the air as I post this on Thursday at 4PM EST... still working through what appears to be slow speeds in turns, but this is a 737-700 from the looks of it:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...845Z/KBFI/KBFI
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...845Z/KBFI/KBFI
Boeing has a plane in the air as I post this on Thursday at 4PM EST... still working through what appears to be slow speeds in turns, but this is a 737-700 from the looks of it:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...845Z/KBFI/KBFI
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...845Z/KBFI/KBFI
