MAX’s Return Delayed by FAA Reevaluation of 737 Safety Procedures
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...737s-x2wk9k2rx
states that 32,000 tickets are on sale on B737 Max's for later on this year at several airlines, including TUI and American Airlines
G
states that 32,000 tickets are on sale on B737 Max's for later on this year at several airlines, including TUI and American Airlines
G
Article also states that TUI were only airline to have operated MAX types in UK. Pretty sure that's wrong. May be that all UK registered MAX were TUI (I've not checked) but surely others such as Norwegian were flying them from UK even if on EI or LN register?
Even if the pilots had been fully briefed about MCAS, its potential failure modes and effects.......
How long would it take to work out that you suddenly had runaway stab trim issues? - whilst you were still struggling to stop a nose-dive? actually not "A" nose-dive but repeated nose-dives?
At the altitude reached, how long would the pilots have then had to work out and implement the correct actions to regain control and avoid terrain?
How long would it take to work out that you suddenly had runaway stab trim issues? - whilst you were still struggling to stop a nose-dive? actually not "A" nose-dive but repeated nose-dives?
At the altitude reached, how long would the pilots have then had to work out and implement the correct actions to regain control and avoid terrain?
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ireland
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Before the grounding, several airlines as well as Norwegian operated MAX flights to/from the UK, including Air Canada, Icelandair and LOT.
Ahh yes the legend in his own lunch time, QF milk him for PR but actual qantas people dont have a lot to say about him. The old saying damned by faint praise.
UK Max operators
AFAIK up to the new BA/IAG MAX order (MofU) only UK's Monarch (now defunct) had placed orders for the 737 Max along with TUI
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: All-At-Sea
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AA initially cancelled MAX flights from their future schedule for 1 month only, then 3 months only with rolling updates/extensions with a note "Not all flights that were previously scheduled on a MAX will be cancelled. American continues to re-route aircraft throughout our network in order to impact the smallest number of customers".
I'm not sure how much we can read into future schedules which include MAX ops. Air Canada cancelled thru Jan 2020.
I'm not sure how much we can read into future schedules which include MAX ops. Air Canada cancelled thru Jan 2020.
Just looked at the UK site of TUI Holidays and their Flights pages (plus looked at the UK TUI ''Our fleet'' pages) and any reference to the fact they have the 737 MAX has been quietly airbrushed away from everything.
Even a FAQ search for Boeing 737 Max brings up zilch...
At this time of year their winter flying program (Nov-Apr W19-20) will be settled, and I gather they are not including any of the Max fleet in this schedule (they have 6 Max on the ground and 3 at Boeing awaiting delivery since last May)
The winter program should be well covered by their own 738NG and 757 fleets without any, or much ACMI needed if the Max does not return during the winter - The BY 757's use AFAIK have been extended - but into next summer 2020?
However next summer's program S20 is a different matter to now re-plan and cover - Decisions have to be made now on the capacity needed - If the Max is not back to certify (and maybe likely re-branded) by the end of this year then TUI UK will either have to sort a lot of ACMI again, as seen this season costing £millions. Or, reduce their program of holidays they sell.
The cost to TUI UK just to the end of this season for the ongoing Max debacle has been estimated to be £600m. Ouch.
Even a FAQ search for Boeing 737 Max brings up zilch...
At this time of year their winter flying program (Nov-Apr W19-20) will be settled, and I gather they are not including any of the Max fleet in this schedule (they have 6 Max on the ground and 3 at Boeing awaiting delivery since last May)
The winter program should be well covered by their own 738NG and 757 fleets without any, or much ACMI needed if the Max does not return during the winter - The BY 757's use AFAIK have been extended - but into next summer 2020?
However next summer's program S20 is a different matter to now re-plan and cover - Decisions have to be made now on the capacity needed - If the Max is not back to certify (and maybe likely re-branded) by the end of this year then TUI UK will either have to sort a lot of ACMI again, as seen this season costing £millions. Or, reduce their program of holidays they sell.
The cost to TUI UK just to the end of this season for the ongoing Max debacle has been estimated to be £600m. Ouch.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Paris, France
Age: 62
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How can "the potential difficulty of pilots in rotating the MAX trim wheel" be fixed?
Reportedly, number 1 of 5 concerns raised by EASA about the 737 MAX is:
"The potential difficulty of pilots in rotating the MAX trim wheel".
What are the feasible technical options (and/or certification strategies) available to Boeing in order to tackle that issue?
"The potential difficulty of pilots in rotating the MAX trim wheel".
What are the feasible technical options (and/or certification strategies) available to Boeing in order to tackle that issue?
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ireland
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reportedly, number 1 of 5 concerns raised by EASA about the 737 MAX is:
"The potential difficulty of pilots in rotating the MAX trim wheel".
What are the feasible technical options (and/or certification strategies) available to Boeing in order to tackle that issue?
Here's a novel idea. I doubt it has been considered by too many people, including pilots on this forum:
If you experience low oil pressure you should follow the QRH procedures for low oil pressure. If you experience an engine failure at or after V1, you should follow the QRH procedures for engine failure after V1. If you experience a runway stab trim you should follow the QRH procedures for a runaway stab trim. And so on.
Pretty radical, isn't it?
Note that the MCAS failure presents itself as a runway stab trim so that would mean that, wait for it! You should follow the QRH procedures for runway stab trim! Amazing, yes?
If you experience low oil pressure you should follow the QRH procedures for low oil pressure. If you experience an engine failure at or after V1, you should follow the QRH procedures for engine failure after V1. If you experience a runway stab trim you should follow the QRH procedures for a runaway stab trim. And so on.
Pretty radical, isn't it?
Note that the MCAS failure presents itself as a runway stab trim so that would mean that, wait for it! You should follow the QRH procedures for runway stab trim! Amazing, yes?
The crew were already dealing with multiple warnings including but not limited to stick shaker, Master Caution Anti-Icing, autopilot disengage prior to the first engagement of MCAS.
The Captain requested reporting of control difficulties to ATC 3 seconds BEFORE MCAS activated.
The suggestion that selecting the runaway trim checklist at this point was simple and straightforward airmanship is hubristic at best.
The three most obvious ones are, a larger diameter wheel (not feasible in current cockpit design), higher gearing (making operation take longer) or some kind of powered assistance (which defeats the idea of a solely human-powered mechanical method of trimming the stabiliser.)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 76
Posts: 821
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I heard a news item on Radio yesterday which should have got my attention but it didn't. What I remember hearing was that a number of customers in the UK have booked flights and, despite being told the Max wouldn't be involved, their bookings have come back as Maxs. I seem to remember one of those people, although in the UK, had booked an American Airlines and his reservation is showing as a Max.
I heard a news item on Radio yesterday which should have got my attention but it didn't. What I remember hearing was that a number of customers in the UK have booked flights and, despite being told the Max wouldn't be involved, their bookings have come back as Maxs. I seem to remember one of those people, although in the UK, had booked an American Airlines and his reservation is showing as a Max.
Every airline has published its W19 schedules by now - AAL are just guessing/hoping that the Max will be flying again by the end of October.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: denmark
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The three most obvious ones are, a larger diameter wheel (not feasible in current cockpit design), higher gearing (making operation take longer) or some kind of powered assistance (which defeats the idea of a solely human-powered mechanical method of trimming the stabiliser.)
The later requires that the Flight Control System for the trim is upgraded to DAL-A.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Connecticut, USA
Age: 64
Posts: 252
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Am I the only one who thinks these planes will never fly again?
If you're correct, you can say goodbye to Boeing - at least as it's existed for the last 100 years. A permanent grounding would cost Boeing north of $100 Billion - not even Boeing could survive that. The only question is would would come out of the resultant bankruptcy.
If the Max is dead in the water, it's hard to see Boeing resurrecting the NG. The result would be Airbus having a de facto monopoly in the 150-200 seat narrowbody market.
That's in nobody's interest, not even Airbus's.
That consideration alone will be enough to ensure that the Max flies again, sooner or later.
That's in nobody's interest, not even Airbus's.
That consideration alone will be enough to ensure that the Max flies again, sooner or later.