US warns airliners flying over Gulf of 'misidentification'
Some years ago I was flying from Saudi to Cyprus on an international flight plan in Saudi controlled airspace. I had 2 UK fighters in the formation, as per the flight plan.
As we approached the Red Sea on our flight planned route, some Spam Navy person called up on 243 "This is Red Crown on Guard - aircraft approaching Wejh identify yourself!".
WTF?? No-one was at war....
Having told the Spam who we were, we were told "You are clear to proceed". To which I replied "We are indeed proceeding in accordance with our clearance from the FIR controller. Thank you for your interest, but we do NOT need any clearance from Americans sailing their boats in the Red Sea to fly on international airways. Goodbye!".
US 'warning' airliners flying over the Gulf - what gives them that right....
??
No doubt the usual trolls will accuse me of being anti-American. Not true - only some of them!
As we approached the Red Sea on our flight planned route, some Spam Navy person called up on 243 "This is Red Crown on Guard - aircraft approaching Wejh identify yourself!".
WTF?? No-one was at war....
Having told the Spam who we were, we were told "You are clear to proceed". To which I replied "We are indeed proceeding in accordance with our clearance from the FIR controller. Thank you for your interest, but we do NOT need any clearance from Americans sailing their boats in the Red Sea to fly on international airways. Goodbye!".
US 'warning' airliners flying over the Gulf - what gives them that right....
??No doubt the usual trolls will accuse me of being anti-American. Not true - only some of them!
There is very little surface to air missle threat in most of Africa once you are clear of the Mediterranean nations. What there is in other areas are almost all manpads that pose a very limited threat to airline traffic.
Very true, it probably has the largest collection of high capability surface to air middle assets in full battery of any area on earth. Those assets are for the most part manned by 18 to 25 year olds. What could go wrong?
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US 'warning' airliners flying over the Gulf - what gives them that right....??
would you rather they NOT warn you? in fact, they are NOT warning you, they are asking you to identify yourself since they apparently haven't, they do have the right to identify potential threats, and defend themselves if necessary...
??would you rather they NOT warn you? in fact, they are NOT warning you, they are asking you to identify yourself since they apparently haven't, they do have the right to identify potential threats, and defend themselves if necessary...
Originally Posted by Ironbutt57
would you rather they NOT warn you? in fact, they are NOT warning you, they are asking you to identify yourself since they apparently haven't, they do have the right to identify potential threats, and defend themselves if necessary...
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That'll be the same US forces that regularly flew SR71 flights down the Red Sea, unannounced. When asked to identify themselves by the Jeddah FIR controllers there was never even an acknowledgement. It seems it works in one direction but not the other?
Incidentally, at the same time El Al began flying down the middle of the Red Sea, heading for Africa. When they came into Jeddah FIR, they would call Jeddah and it was quite funny watching the controllers there sitting stony faced, refusing to acknowledge the calls.
Incidentally, at the same time El Al began flying down the middle of the Red Sea, heading for Africa. When they came into Jeddah FIR, they would call Jeddah and it was quite funny watching the controllers there sitting stony faced, refusing to acknowledge the calls.
US 'warning' airliners flying over the Gulf - what gives them that right....??
would you rather they NOT warn you? in fact, they are NOT warning you, they are asking you to identify yourself since they apparently haven't, they do have the right to identify potential threats, and defend themselves if necessary...
??would you rather they NOT warn you? in fact, they are NOT warning you, they are asking you to identify yourself since they apparently haven't, they do have the right to identify potential threats, and defend themselves if necessary...
Reverse the situation. An Iranian warship suddenly appears 15nm off the coast of New York, issues vague transmissions to a United jet flying overhead then shoots it down. What would the reaction of the US government be? A little more violent I presume than Iran’s response to their aircraft being shot down, pursuing a case in the International Court of Justice.
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Captain BEagle . . . .
...Having told the Spam who we were, we were told "You are clear to proceed". To which I replied "We are indeed proceeding in accordance with our clearance from the FIR controller. Thank you for your interest, but we do NOT need any clearance from Americans sailing their boats in the Red Sea to fly on international airways. Goodbye!".
It was a random US Navy ship in the sea far below and well away from their own country. Presumably operating there without any notification thinking they have the right to direct civil aircraft around contrary to their ATC clearances. They don’t.
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This being said, it is also true that wars are started by men (politicians) and fought by boys (soldiers). WWII started in 1939, the US entered it only in 1941 after being directly attacked by Japan.
It wasn’t to “save Europe” but to limit Japanese expansion in the East (do not forget about US economical and political interests in the SE) and to avoid the conquest of the entire Europe by Germany and/or the USSR. You can see all of this had huge geopolitical and economical reasons behind it.
Even the Marshall Plan was a very well orchestrated political and economical move. It allowed the US to establish military bases in other countries (something which amazes me even today), to avoid a truly democratic process in Europe (left wing movements were on the rise), to limit Russia’s sphere of influence and to save its own economy (with a collapsed Europe the US had virtually nowhere to export its products).
So please, with the due respect for those who fought a war they didn’t ask for, stop saying it was just “goodwill”. It was a geopolitical decision and the US gained huge advantages from it.
Back OT, seen what happened with Iran Air (don’t forget the crew failed to distinguish an A300 with a fully functioning transponder climb profile from a fighter/bomber attack) profile, yes, I do think such messages are very worrying for pilots operating in that region.
Last edited by bulldog89; 20th May 2019 at 06:58.
It wasn’t to “save Europe” but to limit Japanese expansion in the East (do not forget about US economical and political interests in the SE) and to avoid the conquest of the entire Europe by Germany and/or the USSR. You can see all of this had huge geopolitical and economical reasons behind it.
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Ukraine revisited?
I’m not sure what the point of raising who did what in WW2, the Gulf, Afghanistan blah blah. I think most of us hope that chest beating doesn’t lead to something in which a civilian airliner is involved as happened over Ukraine recently
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
The USA has many faults, but if there is going to be one superpower in the world, I'll take the US over the alternatives any day. Besides which, the average American is a nice guy (or gal) 
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Everything is Bon.
https://www.theamericanconservative....war-with-iran/
That Israel is behind the scenes supplying the intelligence and motivation, makes Bolton’s actions even more questionable. It shows that it is John Bolton, not Iran, who poses the greatest threat to American national security today.
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If your average ‘spotter’ in his bedroom can identify passing traffic whether or not it’s on schedule. I would hope that the largest most sophisticated and expensive military force on planet earth can do likewise😱 It’s a damn big waste of a lot of $$$$ if they can’t!
Be lucky
David
Be lucky
David
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Like defend themselves against an Iranian airliner flying in Iranian airspace whilst being positioned in Iranian waters?
Reverse the situation. An Iranian warship suddenly appears 15nm off the coast of New York, issues vague transmissions to a United jet flying overhead then shoots it down. What would the reaction of the US government be? A little more violent I presume than Iran’s response to their aircraft being shot down, pursuing a case in the International Court of Justice.
This is precisely what Vladimir Putin remarked about the United States positioning ground forces 120 miles from their second biggest city. Asking the question, (paraphrasing) what would America do if we sailed our fleet 12 nautical miles off Martha's Vineyard?
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Here is the actual NOTAM for any aviation types here:
You will be shocked to learn that Russian naval units have been prowling just outside the 12 mile limit of the continental U.S. for decades.
See: https://freebeacon.com/national-secu...sian-spy-ship/
I like the part about where they figured out some of the ship's movements and port calls from Facebook posts.
KICZ A0015/19 - SECURITY..UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ADVISORY FOR OVERWATER AIRSPACE ABOVE THE PERSIAN GULF AND GULF OF OMAN
THOSE PERSONS DESCRIBED IN PARAGRAPH A BELOW SHOULD EXERCISE CAUTION WHEN OPERATING IN OVERWATER AIRSPACE ABOVE THE PERSIAN GULF AND THE GULF OF OMAN DUE TO HEIGHTENED MILITARY ACTIVITIES AND INCREASED POLITICAL TENSIONS IN THE REGION, WHICH PRESENT AN INCREASING INADVERTENT RISK TO U.S. CIVIL AVIATION OPERATIONS DUE TO THE POTENTIAL FOR MISCALCULATION OR MIS-IDENTIFICATION. ADDITIONALLY, AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN THE ABOVE-NAMED AREA MAY ENCOUNTER INADVERTENT GPS INTERFERENCE AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS JAMMING, WHICH COULD OCCUR WITH LITTLE TO NO WARNING.
A. APPLICABILITY. THIS NOTAM APPLIES TO: ALL U.S. AIR CARRIERS AND COMMERCIAL OPERATORS; ALL PERSONS EXERCISING THE PRIVILEGES OF AN AIRMAN CERTIFICATE ISSUED BY THE FAA, EXCEPT SUCH PERSONS OPERATING U.S.-REGISTERED AIRCRAFT FOR A FOREIGN AIR CARRIER; AND ALL OPERATORS OF AIRCRAFT REGISTERED IN THE UNITED STATES, EXCEPT WHERE THE OPERATOR OF SUCH AIRCRAFT IS A FOREIGN AIR CARRIER.
B. PLANNING. THOSE PERSONS DESCRIBED IN PARAGRAPH A PLANNING TO OPERATE IN THE ABOVENAMED AREA MUST REVIEW CURRENT SECURITY/THREAT INFORMATION AND NOTAMS; COMPLY WITH ALL APPLICABLE FAA REGULATIONS, OPERATIONS SPECIFICATIONS, MANAGEMENT SPECIFICATIONS, AND LETTERS OF AUTHORIZATION, INCLUDING UPDATING B450.
C. OPERATIONS. EXERCISE CAUTION DURING FLIGHT OPERATIONS DUE TO THE POSSIBILITY OF INTERRUPTIONS TO INTERNATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC DUE TO HEIGHTENED MILITARY ACTIVITIES AND INCREASED POLITICAL TENSIONS IN THE REGION. POTENTIALLY AFFECTED OVERWATER AIRSPACE ABOVE THE PERSIAN GULF AND THE GULF OF OMAN INCLUDES PORTIONS OF THE TEHRAN FIR (OIIX), BAGHDAD FIR (ORBB), KUWAIT FIR (OKAC), JEDDAH FIR (OEJD), BAHRAIN FIR (OBBB), EMIRATES FIR (OMAE), AND MUSCAT FIR (OOMM). THOSE PERSONS DESCRIBED IN PARAGRAPH A MUST REPORT SAFETY AND/OR SECURITY INCIDENTS TO THE FAA AT +1 202-267-3333.
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION IS PROVIDED AT: HTTPS://WWW.FAA.GOV/AIR_TRAFFIC/PUBL..._RESTRICTIONS/
SFC – UNL; 16 MAY 23:11 2019 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 16 MAY 23:17 2019
THOSE PERSONS DESCRIBED IN PARAGRAPH A BELOW SHOULD EXERCISE CAUTION WHEN OPERATING IN OVERWATER AIRSPACE ABOVE THE PERSIAN GULF AND THE GULF OF OMAN DUE TO HEIGHTENED MILITARY ACTIVITIES AND INCREASED POLITICAL TENSIONS IN THE REGION, WHICH PRESENT AN INCREASING INADVERTENT RISK TO U.S. CIVIL AVIATION OPERATIONS DUE TO THE POTENTIAL FOR MISCALCULATION OR MIS-IDENTIFICATION. ADDITIONALLY, AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN THE ABOVE-NAMED AREA MAY ENCOUNTER INADVERTENT GPS INTERFERENCE AND OTHER COMMUNICATIONS JAMMING, WHICH COULD OCCUR WITH LITTLE TO NO WARNING.
A. APPLICABILITY. THIS NOTAM APPLIES TO: ALL U.S. AIR CARRIERS AND COMMERCIAL OPERATORS; ALL PERSONS EXERCISING THE PRIVILEGES OF AN AIRMAN CERTIFICATE ISSUED BY THE FAA, EXCEPT SUCH PERSONS OPERATING U.S.-REGISTERED AIRCRAFT FOR A FOREIGN AIR CARRIER; AND ALL OPERATORS OF AIRCRAFT REGISTERED IN THE UNITED STATES, EXCEPT WHERE THE OPERATOR OF SUCH AIRCRAFT IS A FOREIGN AIR CARRIER.
B. PLANNING. THOSE PERSONS DESCRIBED IN PARAGRAPH A PLANNING TO OPERATE IN THE ABOVENAMED AREA MUST REVIEW CURRENT SECURITY/THREAT INFORMATION AND NOTAMS; COMPLY WITH ALL APPLICABLE FAA REGULATIONS, OPERATIONS SPECIFICATIONS, MANAGEMENT SPECIFICATIONS, AND LETTERS OF AUTHORIZATION, INCLUDING UPDATING B450.
C. OPERATIONS. EXERCISE CAUTION DURING FLIGHT OPERATIONS DUE TO THE POSSIBILITY OF INTERRUPTIONS TO INTERNATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC DUE TO HEIGHTENED MILITARY ACTIVITIES AND INCREASED POLITICAL TENSIONS IN THE REGION. POTENTIALLY AFFECTED OVERWATER AIRSPACE ABOVE THE PERSIAN GULF AND THE GULF OF OMAN INCLUDES PORTIONS OF THE TEHRAN FIR (OIIX), BAGHDAD FIR (ORBB), KUWAIT FIR (OKAC), JEDDAH FIR (OEJD), BAHRAIN FIR (OBBB), EMIRATES FIR (OMAE), AND MUSCAT FIR (OOMM). THOSE PERSONS DESCRIBED IN PARAGRAPH A MUST REPORT SAFETY AND/OR SECURITY INCIDENTS TO THE FAA AT +1 202-267-3333.
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION IS PROVIDED AT: HTTPS://WWW.FAA.GOV/AIR_TRAFFIC/PUBL..._RESTRICTIONS/
SFC – UNL; 16 MAY 23:11 2019 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 16 MAY 23:17 2019
See: https://freebeacon.com/national-secu...sian-spy-ship/
I like the part about where they figured out some of the ship's movements and port calls from Facebook posts.
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[QUOTE=BEagle;10475107]Some years ago I was flying from Saudi to Cyprus on an international flight plan in Saudi controlled airspace. I had 2 UK fighters in the formation, as per the flight plan.
As we approached the Red Sea on our flight planned route, some Spam Navy person called up on 243 "This is Red Crown on Guard - aircraft approaching Wejh identify yourself!".
WTF?? No-one was at war....
Was your international flight from Saudi to Cyprus a movement of three military fighter aircraft, or were you a civilian aircraft being escorted by two UK fighter aircraft?
What is a "Spam Navy person"?
Cheers,
Grog
As we approached the Red Sea on our flight planned route, some Spam Navy person called up on 243 "This is Red Crown on Guard - aircraft approaching Wejh identify yourself!".
WTF?? No-one was at war....
Was your international flight from Saudi to Cyprus a movement of three military fighter aircraft, or were you a civilian aircraft being escorted by two UK fighter aircraft?
What is a "Spam Navy person"?
Cheers,
Grog