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US administration blames foreign pilots for 737 Max crashes

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US administration blames foreign pilots for 737 Max crashes

Old 16th May 2019, 18:31
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When that new A320-111 crashed at the Mulhouse- Habsheim air show back in 1988 the French govt did manage to stick the blame on the pilot. So why blame Trump for trying to avert an even bigger disaster of Boeing going belly up.
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Old 16th May 2019, 19:50
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Originally Posted by WHBM
I wonder why the Foreign Pilots are not crashing the A320s or the A320 Neos ......
How soon we forget. Go back over the past 10 years. Have any 320's gone down? Where?
(At least 1 737 has gone down in that time also ... we had an extended discussion here on PPRuNe on one that went down in Russia)
Originally Posted by Less Hair
Check post #1.
Suggest you also check gums' post. (IMO, the politicization of this is zero value added ... )
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Old 16th May 2019, 20:56
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Originally Posted by Chronus
When that new A320-111 crashed at the Mulhouse- Habsheim air show back in 1988 the French govt did manage to stick the blame on the pilot. So why blame Trump for trying to avert an even bigger disaster of Boeing going belly up.
I take it you understand what happened? The aircraft did exactly what it was designed to do as outlined in the FCOMs. It seems that the pilot was surprised by that.
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Old 16th May 2019, 20:57
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The ultimate target is not more and more pilot training but aircraft that poorly pilots will be able to fly/ manage with safety.
You should not have to train pilots up to a new aircraft but make a new aircraft safer for the less trained pilot.
Nothing against pilot training but the facts are that, for various reasons, not all pilots are trained to the highest level.
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Old 16th May 2019, 22:35
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
Only after the Lion Air accident global operators learned about MCAS and only recently they learned about AoA-disagree-warnings not working in MAX standard configuration as advertised.
Isn't a stick shaker only on one side an indication of AoA disagree?
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Old 16th May 2019, 23:02
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shaker on one side?

Originally Posted by SquintyMagoo
Isn't a stick shaker only on one side an indication of AoA disagree?
This keeps coming up and it came up in the hearing. (Yes, I watched it all). Will someone who has actually experienced stick shaker activation on one side only in a 737 please comment. Is the shaker also felt in the other mechanically linked column? I'm quite sure it would be on a DC10, MD-10 or MD-11. If it is felt then is it possible to determine if only one stick shaker motor is running?
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Old 16th May 2019, 23:24
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Yes, I wondered that. I assumed there'd be a significant loss of the vibrational 'sharpness' in transmitting it across the connecting mechanics.
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Old 16th May 2019, 23:27
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FACT for you: some airlines are so egregiously bad that certain nations or aviation authorities ban them from their airspace.
yet Airbus and Boeing continue to sell them aircraft...knowing this?

If a gun shop sells a felon a weapon....

a bar sells a drunk another drink.
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Old 17th May 2019, 00:16
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Originally Posted by Smythe
yet Airbus and Boeing continue to sell them aircraft...knowing this?

If a gun shop sells a felon a weapon....

a bar sells a drunk another drink.
What a ridiculous post...
Every new generation of commercial aircraft has gotten safer than the previous generation (the MAX not withstanding). So you're going to take the countries and operators that need the most help with their aircraft safety and prevent them from purchasing new, safer aircraft. Effectively condemning them to operating older, less safe aircraft.
Brilliant
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Old 17th May 2019, 00:39
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When that new A320-111 crashed at the Mulhouse- Habsheim air show back in 1988 the French govt did manage to stick the blame on the pilot.

Err, two wrongs don't make a right, as my Granny would say. And I'd hope that transparency in air safety is something we'd hope to see improving over three decades.

So why blame Trump for trying to avert an even bigger disaster of Boeing going belly up.

If that's indeed what is happening, I think Trump would be blameworthy,
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Old 17th May 2019, 00:41
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Wow

What an insult to the rest of the world.

Well done, ..... I guess. 🤔🇨🇦
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Old 17th May 2019, 00:58
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Never thought I'd see a Dana Milbank political screed used as the basis for a PPRuNe topic but here we are...
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Old 17th May 2019, 01:55
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Salute!
Never thought I'd see a Dana Milbank political screed used as the basis for a PPRuNe topic but here we are...
Thank you BFS,

I could not read the article as it is pay walled and it is also shown as "opinions" when I Googled it. So it has zero, if not negative credibility when considering the politically neutral WaPo, huh?

I'll wait for something with name, rank and serial number versus "sources". But I saw the hearing and I did not see a single official from NTSB or FAA agree with one or more of the clueless cmte members as to poorly trained or incompetent foreign crews. And of course, our Yeager clones here would have saved the day on both accidents.

Gums sends...
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Old 17th May 2019, 02:09
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Originally Posted by gums
Salute!


Thank you BFS,

I could not read the article as it is pay walled and it is also shown as "opinions" when I Googled it. So it has zero, if not negative credibility when considering the politically neutral WaPo, huh?

I'll wait for something with name, rank and serial number versus "sources". But I saw the hearing and I did not see a single official from NTSB or FAA agree with one or more of the clueless cmte members as to poorly trained or incompetent foreign crews. And of course, our Yeager clones here would have saved the day on both accidents.

Gums sends...
You may wish to read the article. 😏
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Old 17th May 2019, 02:23
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Originally Posted by Chronus
When that new A320-111 crashed at the Mulhouse- Habsheim air show back in 1988 the French govt did manage to stick the blame on the pilot. So why blame Trump for trying to avert an even bigger disaster of Boeing going belly up.
Wow, that's great logic.
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Old 17th May 2019, 04:54
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weren't both airplanes that crashed in fact totally controllable if the stab trim checklist were complied with?, regardless of where the pilots were from?
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Old 17th May 2019, 05:03
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Originally Posted by ironbutt57
weren't both airplanes that crashed in fact totally controllable if the stab trim checklist were complied with?, regardless of where the pilots were from?
The USA pilots that did a SIM reconstruction used up all 8,000 ft of altitude to recover by using the yo-yo procedure not in MAX checklist.

So that would a NO, or if the Yo-Yo was in the checklist a maybe but dependant on calibration tolerances.

And they were prepared for the reconstruction.
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Old 17th May 2019, 05:07
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Quote - Sam Graves 15 May 2019.

"In the last decade, in the United States there have been nearly 7 Billion passengers flown on 90 Million flights with ONE fatality."

Atlas Air FLT 3591 - 23 Feb 2019 - 3 Fatal
SWA FLT 1380 - 17 Apr 2018 - 1 Fatal
UPS FLT 1354 - 14 Aug 2013 - 2 Fatal
National Air FLT 102 - 29 Apr 2013 - 7 Fatal
UPS FLT 6 - 3 Sep 2010 - 2 Fatal
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Old 17th May 2019, 05:38
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Originally Posted by Bend alot
The USA pilots that did a SIM reconstruction used up all 8,000 ft of altitude to recover by using the yo-yo procedure not in MAX checklist.

So that would a NO, or if the Yo-Yo was in the checklist a maybe but dependant on calibration tolerances.

And they were prepared for the reconstruction.
think the issue may be does anybody learn to actually FLY anymore, or is it all procedures and checklists, any reerence to the USA sim re-constructions? what about trimming out the pitch when it happens and then stab trim de-activate...people are complaining they didnt know about MCAS, fair enough, regardless, take necessary actions to keep the airplane upright...
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Old 17th May 2019, 06:12
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Originally Posted by ironbutt57
think the issue may be does anybody learn to actually FLY anymore, or is it all procedures and checklists, any reerence to the USA sim re-constructions? what about trimming out the pitch when it happens and then stab trim de-activate...people are complaining they didnt know about MCAS, fair enough, regardless, take necessary actions to keep the airplane upright...
I will have a look see if I can find the sim re-construction again.

I have now lost all faith in this just fly the aircraft after this advocate of it. I would not want to be in an aircraft with this guy.

57:50 mark - AoA's explained.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?460584...ircraft-safety
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