Scrapping of A380

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by CargoOne

B777 will be difficult too. Very limited number of operators outside the first tier and they typically operate just a couple of aircraft. Remarketing of 777s is difficult already today and we are not into the massive wave of re-deliveries from original operators yet. There is no room for 1300x 772&773 on second hand market except freighter conversions.

But I think you'll find the 777 makes a pretty good freighter (160 already in-service, with over 50 more on-order). Plus, even though it's been in-service for 24 years, you're not seeing many ending up in the desert. The operators just keep flying them.

[Kerosene Kraut]

The more modern and more standard Emirates A380 would be way better for another second hand airline use or for industrial conversion to package freighters. Think Amazon or similar. They are not good for heavier general cargo but lightweight packages would be some perfect cargo.

[BEA 71]

The condition of the aircraft is not the point when looking for a buyer, the problem is mainly the costs for refurbishing, which is the reason, why IAG have dropped their plans to buy second hand A 380 aircraft. It would probably be cheaper to buy new aircraft.

[ironbutt57]

Originally Posted by Kerosene Kraut

The more modern and more standard Emirates A380 would be way better for another second hand airline use or for industrial conversion to package freighters. Think Amazon or similar. They are not good for heavier general cargo but lightweight packages would be some perfect cargo.

add in the cost of infrastructure required to service these as freighters, one might discover why FedEx early on had expressed interest in the 380, then abandoned the idea..

[last747fe]

Ups also looked at the 380 but ultimately we got 747-400f and then 747-8, as my name implies, I road the classic to the end!

[4runner]

Originally Posted by tdracer

But I think you'll find the 777 makes a pretty good freighter (160 already in-service, with over 50 more on-order). Plus, even though it's been in-service for 24 years, you're not seeing many ending up in the desert. The operators just keep flying them.

yes. The 777 makes a pretty good everything. This was the last Boeing developed before this current regime took over. It was a clean slate design by engineers and limited oversight by accounting. They’re as good as it gets. Ours were pulled off a ramp surrounded by jungle on 2 sides and salt water on the third side and have never left us stranded. We have some of the first build LR’s. Fantastic machines.

[CargoOne]

Originally Posted by tdracer

But I think you'll find the 777 makes a pretty good freighter (160 already in-service, with over 50 more on-order). Plus, even though it's been in-service for 24 years, you're not seeing many ending up in the desert. The operators just keep flying them.

So far 777 freighters are exclusively factory built freighters and while conversion program have been under consideration for years, it is not officially launched yet. And very likely it would concentrate on -300ER due to its much better volume. There are over 100x B777 in storage at the moment, mostly -200/200ERs - these aircraft are doomed. Since Jet Airways went tits up recently we will see how quickly the market can absorb a dozen of -300ERs unless Vistara will go ahead with their suicide plan to take them all at once...

[Sunamer]

Originally Posted by Less Hair

The A380 concept matured over tens of years. While the airline industry moved from carrying more and more passengers through hubs to point to point with smaller aircraft and a focus on business travellers. This is why there are 787 and A350 now.

that is to say that Boeing was right again with their strategic moves.

[oldchina]

Former Airbus employees know that for its day the 777 is as good as it gets

[Kerosene Kraut]

Not sure how right Boeing was. They developed the 747-8 believing in the big quad's future themselves.

Concerning the A380 as a freighter: FedEx and UPS had ordered (firm) factory build A380 freighters back then until Airbus cancelled that version during their electrical wiring "harness mess".

[Smythe]

Let’s not forget these A380s now being withdrawn are the very early non standard ones.

True, according to the news, in combination with the lease and parting out the aircraft (leasing the engines) the good Dr made 148% and 155% rate of return on the ac.

I seem to remember FEDEX ordering 380-800F..whatever happened to those?

[Kerosene Kraut]

Orders possibly converted to other Airbus freighters?

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by Kerosene Kraut

Not sure how right Boeing was. They developed the 747-8 believing in the big quad's future themselves.

Concerning the A380 as a freighter: FedEx and UPS had ordered (firm) factory build A380 freighters back then until Airbus cancelled that version during their electrical wiring "harness mess".

Boeing built the 747-8 to take market share from the A380, and to maintain the dominance of the 747 Freighter (remember, the 747-8F was the launch aircraft and entered service first - the passenger version was almost an afterthought). It appears to have worked - the 747-8F is still in production and the A380 is officially dead. Boeing isn't making much money on the 747-8F at the current production rate, but they're not loosing money either.
Yes, there were a small number of A380F ordered early, then cancelled when Airbus ran into trouble with the A380. But even before the orders were cancelled, industry analysts were puzzling over the A380F - for the very reasons I posted earlier. It seems to be rather telling that, after Airbus got a handle on the A380, they never bothered to re-offer the A380F.
The 747 was designed from day one to make a good freighter. The A380 wasn't.

[atakacs]

Originally Posted by Smythe

I seem to remember FEDEX ordering 380-800F..whatever happened to those?

for various reasons described in this thread and elsewhere in the forum Airbus decided not to build them.

And conversion is a non starter. There will be a lot of a380 scrapping in the coming years.

[Kerosene Kraut]

The A380F was cancelled by the manufacturer not by it's customers.

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by Kerosene Kraut

The A380F was cancelled by the manufacturer not by it's customers.

Your point being? Seems to me that would confirm the contention that the A380 wouldn't make a good freighter, at least not without a massive investment that Airbus didn't see paying off.

[Junkflyer]

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/pres...ue-livery.html

[Kerosene Kraut]

Your point being?

Customer demand was there.

[bvcu]

777 Freighter conversion not launched yet , carbon fibre floor beams have to be replaced which makes it a big expensive job so market has to right to make it viable.

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by Kerosene Kraut

Customer demand was there.

Seriously? There was sufficient customer demand to make money if they developed an A380 Freighter, but Airbus decided not to bother? They threw away a lucrative market?
Or was it the same 'customer demand' that lead Airbus to forecast selling 1500 A380s when they launched the program?