Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Aer Lingus pax 'disembark' onto wings

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Aer Lingus pax 'disembark' onto wings

Old 9th May 2019, 13:34
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North by Northwest
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Aer Lingus pax 'disembark' onto wings

Granted, there was a return so uncertain what announcements might have occurred prior to landing but pax opened the over wing emergency exits and climbed onto wing after the pilot requested they 'disembark the aircraft quickly'. https://nypost.com/2019/05/09/plane-...gency-landing/
b1lanc is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 14:03
  #2 (permalink)  

"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: England
Age: 77
Posts: 4,136
Received 221 Likes on 64 Posts
Quite an understandable action. How long now before this thread starts the "taking baggage with them" discussion?
Herod is online now  
Old 9th May 2019, 14:07
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North by Northwest
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Herod
Quite an understandable action. How long now before this thread starts the "taking baggage with them" discussion?
I think you just opened the door
b1lanc is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 14:10
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wolverhampton
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by b1lanc
Granted, there was a return so uncertain what announcements might have occurred prior to landing but pax opened the over wing emergency exits and climbed onto wing after the pilot requested they 'disembark the aircraft quickly'. https://nypost.com/2019/05/09/plane-...gency-landing/
Reading the article I saw that an emergency exit was essentially 'blocked' by CC assisting a disabled passenger and preventing disembarking of the other pax (remember - the pax thought it was an emergency evac) so that was why the over wing exits were used.
The needs of the One outweighs the needs of the many?
If that had happened in the terrible Moscow crash fire, how many then would have survived?
Its a supremely difficult humanitarian dilemma.
sixchannel is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 14:20
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weedon, UK
Age: 77
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by sixchannel
Reading the article I saw that an emergency exit was essentially 'blocked' by CC assisting a disabled passenger and preventing disembarking of the other pax (remember - the pax thought it was an emergency evac) so that was why the over wing exits were used.
The needs of the One outweighs the needs of the many?
If that had happened in the terrible Moscow crash fire, how many then would have survived?
Its a supremely difficult humanitarian dilemma.
Except that it wasn't a dilemma for the CC who (presumably) were fully aware it wasn't an evacuation.
sooty655 is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 14:27
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wolverhampton
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by sooty655
Except that it wasn't a dilemma for the CC who (presumably) were fully aware it wasn't an evacuation.
Isnt it standard practise for disabled pax to be Last On, Last Off?
If so, why didn't that happen as it WASN'T an Emergency??
Just asking - no hidden agenda.
sixchannel is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 14:30
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,808
Received 199 Likes on 92 Posts
Originally Posted by b1lanc
Granted, there was a return so uncertain what announcements might have occurred prior to landing but pax opened the over wing emergency exits and climbed onto wing after the pilot requested they 'disembark the aircraft quickly'. https://nypost.com/2019/05/09/plane-...gency-landing/
Expensive affair - not only the cost of repacking the overwing slides (which some pax used), but also the repairs to the E/E doors, which were damaged when ejected onto the wings/ground.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 14:58
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: 60 north
Age: 59
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You either have an emergency evacuation or it is a normal disembarkation.
As this Cpt just found out.
A tricky one this one as once You go for a normal one and the stairs are attached the slides are disarmed.
On the A320 the overwing slides apparently are armed regardless.
Bad choice of wording leading to a bit of crowd control issues.
I learned something today.
Regards
Cpt B
BluSdUp is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 15:23
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by b1lanc
Granted, there was a return so uncertain what announcements might have occurred prior to landing but pax opened the over wing emergency exits and climbed onto wing after the pilot requested they 'disembark the aircraft quickly'. https://nypost.com/2019/05/09/plane-...gency-landing/
Much more important question - did he took his baggage with him?
sorry could not resist...
CargoOne is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 15:24
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Dublin
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Capt B - From my reading of the AAIU report, the Captain initiated the “Rapid Disembarkation” procedure which is an SOP in Aer Lingus which is, in effect, a halfway step between a full evacuation and normal disembarkation.

This captain seems to have followed the procedure prescribed by the airline and approved by the authority (IAA). Now, whether or not this procedure is adequate or not, is an entirely different question. From my reading, the crew handled the emergency well and may have been let down by an ambiguous procedure which led to confusion in the cabin.
Whatsitallabout is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 15:39
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by sixchannel
Isnt it standard practise for disabled pax to be Last On, Last Off?
If so, why didn't that happen as it WASN'T an Emergency??
Just asking - no hidden agenda.
Not from my recent experience, at least for boarding. "Passengers needing assistance" are always mentioned first or very early in the boarding call.
ams6110 is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 16:39
  #12 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North by Northwest
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ams6110
Not from my recent experience, at least for boarding. "Passengers needing assistance" are always mentioned first or very early in the boarding call.
First on, but almost always last off on US flights, at least with Delta. I don't think that last off is policy, just simply time it takes to get wheel chairs to the gate with correct staff (e.g. not airline staff). A lot of elderly and wheel chair folks on our flights Tuesday. Also, I believe that even if they are not in a wheel chair, but somewhat elderly, they don't want to get trampled. Lots of elderly frequent fliers these days.
b1lanc is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 16:41
  #13 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North by Northwest
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Whatsitallabout

Capt B - From my reading of the AAIU report, the Captain initiated the “Rapid Disembarkation” procedure which is an SOP in Aer Lingus which is, in effect, a halfway step between a full evacuation and normal disembarkation.

This captain seems to have followed the procedure prescribed by the airline and approved by the authority (IAA). Now, whether or not this procedure is adequate or not, is an entirely different question. From my reading, the crew handled the emergency well and may have been let down by an ambiguous procedure which led to confusion in the cabin.
Rapid disembarkation and leave all baggage behind (which is what is alleged to have been the directions) leaves the word disembarkation somewhat fuzzy I think.

b1lanc is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 16:44
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: 60 north
Age: 59
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Assistance needed = First on - Last off as a standard.

Whatsitallabout:
Interesting procedure.
Perfect decision.
Plan/Sop not so perfect.
Standing by for amendment.
So, I learn more today.
Thanks W
BluSdUp is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 16:48
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Humble SLF here. If the pilot issued an order to ‘disembark the aircraft quickly’, why would the cabin crew then block the aisle assisting a disabled passenger? To me, this does not make sense.
From the SLF point of view an emergency return to the airport had been carried out. I don’t know if the passengers knew the return was due to fumes in the cockpit or not but any emergency return is going to be cause for concern. Keep in mind that this is occurred soon after the fiery Russian crash where many passengers lost their lives because they could not get out. This has been all over the news. The passengers saw the plane surrounded by fire trucks and emergency vehicles which is a good thing but if they don’t know that, they may have concluded the situation was worse than they thought. To the average passenger I suspect ‘disembark the aircraft quickly’ = get out. If I had received this order and the aisle was blocked, I’m very sorry but I would have opened the window exit too and I am aware that an evacuation will inevitably result in some injuries.
CamilleInChicago7 is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 16:56
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 182
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Whatsitallabout
Capt B - From my reading of the AAIU report, the Captain initiated the “Rapid Disembarkation” procedure which is an SOP in Aer Lingus which is, in effect, a halfway step between a full evacuation and normal disembarkation.
What a pity nobody thought to explain the difference to the passengers in advance! Presumably Aer Lingus are now reviewing this part of SOP as a result of practical experience?
SamYeager is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 17:05
  #17 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North by Northwest
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SamYeager
What a pity nobody thought to explain the difference to the passengers in advance! Presumably Aer Lingus are now reviewing this part of SOP as a result of practical experience?
I think there is a wide gap in interpretation possible full evac and normal disembark.
b1lanc is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 17:41
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,808
Received 199 Likes on 92 Posts
Originally Posted by b1lanc
Rapid disembarkation and leave all baggage behind (which is what is alleged to have been the directions) leaves the word disembarkation somewhat fuzzy I think.
Particularly as the initial CC direction reportedly included the instruction to use the nearest exit, subsequently amended to "please exit the aircraft through the back doors and forward doors" once it was realised that the overwing exits had been opened.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 17:58
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Connecticut, USA
Age: 64
Posts: 252
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm thinking that seeing fire trucks plus having seen recently just how quickly a plane can burn up might well have contributed to the panic.
jugofpropwash is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 18:20
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Exit stage right.
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by jugofpropwash
I'm thinking that seeing fire trucks plus having seen recently just how quickly a plane can burn up might well have contributed to the panic.
You did actually read the links, didn't you ?

The incident happened in November 2017 BTW.
racedo is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.