Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Challenger 600 series down in Mexico

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Challenger 600 series down in Mexico

Old 7th May 2019, 05:05
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New South Wales
Posts: 65
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Challenger 600 series down in Mexico

Our Nine news, via CNN, is reporting a Challenger private jet with 13 aboard down in Mexico. I do not know how to post a link, so if someone can help out.
Aircraft looks like it was burnt out on the ground rather than an impact event. No visible debris trail, tracks, or crater.
Fate of passengers and crew unknown at this time.
seafury45 is offline  
Old 7th May 2019, 05:08
  #2 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New South Wales
Posts: 65
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
just noticed - already reported in Biz jets forum.
seafury45 is offline  
Old 7th May 2019, 05:09
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by seafury45
Fate of passengers and crew unknown at this time.
Sadly, the fate of the passengers and crew is known: Challenger missing in Mexico

Airbubba is offline  
Old 7th May 2019, 05:37
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ban Chiang,Thailand
Age: 67
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
CL-601 N601VH en route LAS-MTY.

RIP all on board her.
Thaihawk is offline  
Old 7th May 2019, 05:54
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: DFFD Ouagadougou
Age: 62
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Looks like it pancaked. According to Flight Aware they were passing around some weather at FL410 and the data ends at this altitude. Lightning strike followed but an AF447 scenario?
Raffles S.A. is offline  
Old 7th May 2019, 06:04
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: the City by the Bay
Posts: 547
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombar...ger_600_series
Is there something wrong with the Challenger jets or are they in the news more simply because there are more of them around?
armchairpilot94116 is offline  
Old 7th May 2019, 06:24
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,786
Received 196 Likes on 90 Posts
Thirty-year-old CL-600-2B16 (i.e. Challenger 601-3A) operated by Gama Aviation, returning to its Monterrey base with a boxing charter group after the Alvarez/Jacobs fight in Las Vegas.
DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 7th May 2019, 12:47
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: utah
Age: 67
Posts: 59
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Raffles S.A.
Looks like it pancaked. According to Flight Aware they were passing around some weather at FL410 and the data ends at this altitude. Lightning strike followed but an AF447 scenario?
Exactly what I was thinking looking at the wreckage...no forward speed at all.....🤔
atr-drivr is offline  
Old 7th May 2019, 12:59
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,131
Received 318 Likes on 204 Posts
The Biz Jets forum discussion on this loss is here.
Lonewolf_50 is online now  
Old 7th May 2019, 14:26
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,216
Received 12 Likes on 7 Posts
Originally Posted by armchairpilot94116
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombar...ger_600_series
Is there something wrong with the Challenger jets or are they in the news more simply because there are more of them around?
19 hull losses out of 1066 built = 1.9%. Over 41 years.

No consistent cause - everything from failure to de-ice to W&B error to upset by an A380 wake to bounced landing to test flights.

It does use a supercritical wing, which has - unusual - stall characteristics, and may be a factor in this particular accident. Might (emphasize might) have been a contributing factor in the Dick Ebersol failure-to-de-ice accident in Colorado.

It's also the basis for the CRJ 100-200 designs, and again, accident causes with those seem to be all over the map, not due to any particular problem.
pattern_is_full is offline  
Old 8th May 2019, 01:57
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Raffles S.A.
Looks like it pancaked. According to Flight Aware they were passing around some weather at FL410 and the data ends at this altitude. Lightning strike followed but an AF447 scenario?

Does lightning go up towards clear air or down towards the ground or another cloud?
lomapaseo is offline  
Old 8th May 2019, 02:26
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: US
Age: 66
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 4 Posts
It can do any of the above.
Sailvi767 is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 02:18
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: the City by the Bay
Posts: 547
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Disconcerting this one and the Turkish owned jet both went down very fast during cruise

We don’t know the cause of each case yet do we ?
armchairpilot94116 is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 03:25
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by armchairpilot94116
Disconcerting this one and the Turkish owned jet both went down very fast during cruise

We don’t know the cause of each case yet do we ?
The cause of the 2018 crash of TC-TRB in Iran is known. They had unreliable airspeed and the captain thought they were overspeeding and pulled the power back into a stall.

See: https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=20180311-0

The preliminary accident report is here:

https://www.cao.ir/web/english/inves...FmY1hnPT0=.pdf
Airbubba is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 15:03
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: the City by the Bay
Posts: 547
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Airbubba
The cause of the 2018 crash of TC-TRB in Iran is known. They had unreliable airspeed and the captain thought they were overspeeding and pulled the power back into a stall.

See: https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=20180311-0

The preliminary accident report is here:

https://www.cao.ir/web/english/inves...FmY1hnPT0=.pdf
thanks for that. Interesting the captains dna was not found but everyone else’s was. Flameout due to weather and engines at low power perhaps?



armchairpilot94116 is offline  
Old 9th May 2019, 22:36
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by armchairpilot94116

thanks for that. Interesting the captains dna was not found but everyone else’s was. Flameout due to weather and engines at low power perhaps?


He said the so-called captain-lady did the wrong reaction of the crew for airspeed disagree. Fighting the symptoms, erased overspeed warnings by reducing the power, which leads to a stall. That turned out not as a clever move.
It was her first job as captain after a role as Copilot with TK. The Lady-Copilot was continuing after a couple of years as a university teacher. The owner was proud to have a 100% female crew for his daughter but now he lost them all.
Insalah




rak64 is offline  
Old 10th May 2019, 15:27
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Age: 56
Posts: 945
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rak64
He said the so-called captain-lady did the wrong reaction of the crew for airspeed disagree. Fighting the symptoms, erased overspeed warnings by reducing the power, which leads to a stall. That turned out not as a clever move.
It was her first job as captain after a role as Copilot with TK. The Lady-Copilot was continuing after a couple of years as a university teacher. The owner was proud to have a 100% female crew for his daughter but now he lost them all.
Insalah



Can we please avoid the “lady-pilot”? If the gender is relevant, as it could be here, as apparently the father specifically wanted women to fly his daughter, a better way would be “female pilot”. Nobody would think of using “gentlemen-pilot” for a male pilot.

Yes, the female captain did a horrible job, the female co-pilot did her best to correct, but should have taken control.


hans brinker is offline  
Old 10th May 2019, 15:40
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 29
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by hans brinker


Can we please avoid the “lady-pilot”? If the gender is relevant, as it could be here, as apparently the father specifically wanted women to fly his daughter, a better way would be “female pilot”. Nobody would think of using “gentlemen-pilot” for a male pilot.

Yes, the female captain did a horrible job, the female co-pilot did her best to correct, but should have taken control.


you can tell english isn't his native language, cut him some slack.
AndoniP is offline  
Old 10th May 2019, 17:35
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: the City by the Bay
Posts: 547
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I am interested in how both engines flamed out and if that was recognized and any actions taken to restart them. Seems not. On the Turkish flight.

Last edited by armchairpilot94116; 11th May 2019 at 05:55. Reason: clarity
armchairpilot94116 is offline  
Old 11th May 2019, 07:47
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by hans brinker


Can we please avoid the “lady-pilot”? If the gender is relevant, as it could be here, as apparently the father specifically wanted women to fly his daughter, a better way would be “female pilot”. Nobody would think of using “gentlemen-pilot” for a male pilot.

Yes, the female captain did a horrible job, the female co-pilot did her best to correct, but should have taken control.

I used it for a good purpose because these ladies were selected because they are female, despite her questionable qualification. Another captain, as well female, left the job because of working conditions...
Hope you understand.
rak64 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.