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Pax Jet in water at NAS Jacksonville, all OK

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Pax Jet in water at NAS Jacksonville, all OK

Old 6th May 2019, 21:35
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JamaicaJoe View Post
Not surprising the nose radome got sheared off, but odd that there is no radar equipment inside. Was this plane flying without its weather radar?? Passengers complained of no airconditioning as well.
This plane may have been fitted with the optional " Poverty Pack".
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Old 6th May 2019, 22:47
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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It now appears that the maintenance log showed the left reverse thruster inop.
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Old 7th May 2019, 01:51
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder what kind of perf data they use. Remember, when in doubt, (even grooved pavement), it’s a wet runway.

The whole TALPA/RCC came about from the SWA overrun at midway. Had that crew entered the correct conditions, they would have seen unsuitable pavement ahead.

The additional factoring nowadays is designed to mitigate unknowable/inaccurate condition entries. This overrun was avoidable, IMO, and should have triggered a huge threat flag with the unserviceable T/R and everything else considered.
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Old 7th May 2019, 02:23
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Is Hangar 1000 where they park the Millenium Falcon?
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Old 7th May 2019, 02:58
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Originally Posted by dakarman View Post
Is Hangar 1000 where they park the Millenium Falcon?
Actually Hangar 1000 and the VP-30 Hangar are home of the supersecret 737 Future Airline Pilot Training Academy. Even the Skipper of NAS Jax who is a Hornet guy has been checked out in the Boeing in hopes of landing a Southwest interview.
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Old 7th May 2019, 05:55
  #86 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by 737 Driver View Post
For reference, the approach speed (not touchdown) for a max weight Flaps 30 landing is around 147 KIAS. Maximum flap setting is 40, but some pilots don't like to use them because the 737 has a small pilot induced oscillation issue at this setting. A bounced landing in the 737 (and probably most airliners) is nothing to fool around with and should generally be converted to a go-around.
Flown loads of flaps 40 landings. It is the pitch trim and attitude on landing that catches low time pilots out.Bounced landing recovery is a GA per the FCOM!
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Old 7th May 2019, 06:19
  #87 (permalink)  

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I have operated into joint civil / USAF bases in the Mediterranean with arrestor gears. The thought of reducing LDA never occurred and indeed there never was or should have been any NOTAM or official operational restriction published. Why would, it is a cable on the ground, mostly embedded in the pavement.

It seems whatever information circulates in the media realm is too raw and trying to reconstruct the events need to wait a bit.

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Old 7th May 2019, 12:21
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 568 View Post
Flown loads of flaps 40 landings. It is the pitch trim and attitude on landing that catches low time pilots out.Bounced landing recovery is a GA per the FCOM!
Same here. Landing Flaps 40 isn't much of a problem after you do enough of them. The muscle memory eventually figures is out. Unfortunately, I see a lot of pilots who stick with Flaps 30 because it is easier. I always encourage my new FO's to use Flaps 40 exclusively (conditions permitting) until they are comfortable with them because going from Flaps 40 to Flaps 30 is no problem. The same cannot be said of the reverse.
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:25
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
I have operated into joint civil / USAF bases in the Mediterranean with arrestor gears. The thought of reducing LDA never occurred and indeed there never was or should have been any NOTAM or official operational restriction published. Why would, it is a cable on the ground, mostly embedded in the pavement.
Depends on the type of barrier. Some are a cable with "donuts" spaced along them to keep them slightly raised. If a large aircraft hits them with the nose or mains, they've been known to bounce up an rip off antennas and probes on the belly. I don't know what type of barrier they have at Navy JAX.
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Old 7th May 2019, 14:20
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Rumour also has it the captain was an IP conducting line training at the time.

Slag away.....
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Old 7th May 2019, 15:37
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Quick question from someone who has never handled a jet - Does Flaps 40 make a go around tricky ?
On many lighter aircraft the workload increases trying to get the flaps up to acheive a decent rate of climb.
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Old 7th May 2019, 15:50
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Originally Posted by The Ancient Geek View Post
Quick question from someone who has never handled a jet - Does Flaps 40 make a go around tricky ?
On many lighter aircraft the workload increases trying to get the flaps up to acheive a decent rate of climb.
Not really much different than Flaps 30. There will be times that climb performance may be an issue (high & hot airports), so a pilot may elect to use Flaps 15 since the initial go-around flap target is Flaps 1 rather than Flaps 15.
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Old 7th May 2019, 17:27
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One of the improvements on the MAX was to the flaps to allow for more flaps 40 landings...

Not sure if it has ever been that tricky, other than the Dutch Roll feature....just a bit slow and increased fuel burn.
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Old 7th May 2019, 17:30
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What is the basis of the current 737 landing performance. Is this still the original ‘actual’ distances, requiring significant corrections; or have all manuals been updated to OLD / FOLD.
What would be most likely used by this operator.
Alternatively are there third party performance calculations which would be approved for this operator.
Which would be in an electronic flight bag, if applicable.
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Old 7th May 2019, 23:05
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NTSB Investigator-in-Charge Dan Bower on Tuesday afternoon carrying the cockpit voice recorder that had been just recovered from the Boeing 737-800 that overran the runway in Jacksonville, Florida, Friday.


John Lovell was introduced at both previous press conferences as the Investigator-in-Charge, has there been a change?




NTSB investigators Tuesday recovering the cockpit voice recorder from the Boeing 737-800 that had overrun the runway in Jacksonville, Florida, Friday. The airplane is on a barge that will transport it to a secure location.
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Old 23rd May 2019, 17:32
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NTSB update - 23 May 2019

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...ive-update.pdf

​​​​​​...Runway 10 is 9,000-ft long and 200-ft wide and has a 1,000-ft displaced threshold. The runway also has a paved runway overrun area that is 1000-ft long. Investigators surveyed tire marks on and beyond runway 10, extending from the airplane’s estimated touchdown point to the embankment along the river. Light, white, landing gear tire marks were found on the pavement beginning at the touchdown point of the airplane, about 1,600 feet from the runway 10 displaced threshold, and continuing to the end of the pavement. (The touchdown point based on the tire marks is consistent with the estimated touchdown point based on initial review of the flight data recorder [FDR] data.) The tire marks also showed that the airplane touched down about 20 ft right of the runway centerline, returned to the centerline within about 1,000 ft of touchdown, then veered about 75 ft right of the centerline by the time the airplane had traveled about 6,200 ft from the runway 10 displaced threshold (about 4,600 ft from touchdown). The airplane then departed the runway surface about 60 ft right of the centerline onto the grass before striking the rock embankment...
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Old 23rd May 2019, 17:41
  #97 (permalink)  

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Thanks! Overruns after a proper touchdown are rather rare. This one looks alright by the numbers.
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Old 23rd May 2019, 22:41
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
Thanks! Overruns after a proper touchdown are rather rare. This one looks alright by the numbers.
Which numbers are you using as reference?
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Old 23rd May 2019, 22:51
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Fast Touchdown

Originally Posted by FIRESYSOK View Post


Which numbers are you using as reference?
I believe the NTSB briefing following the accident mentioned the FDR analysis showed the touchdown speed was GS 178 kts and airspeed at 163 kts.
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Old 24th May 2019, 05:35
  #100 (permalink)  

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Publicly available data, individual accident reports - keeping eyes open.

As that does not satisfy the requirement behind your question, there was an article in one of Boeing's own issue of the Aero magazine that provides hard data.

Also I hunch a disproportionate number of b737 accidents I am afraid, and additionally the N- registered pool seem to make news more often than one would expect - could be due to better coverage.

---

The NTSB document linked for this case describes some consistency between the skid marks and QAR data, and quite a lot other pertinent numbers. Among which all of speed data is omitted, it kind of stands out.

The lateral deviations around the centerline are pronounced, I think there might be more to it than just a simple handling deviation. We'll learn eventually.
​​
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