return of pay2fly programs?
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Oh common guys, stop crying about p2f! You decided to be a pilot, it's a hard job requires experience and a lot of steps to get into that. Why some company should pay for you - with a fresh CPL you're nothing in a commercial aviation, you don't have experience and nobody knows how good you're. Flying C150 is nothing with flying commercial jet, the common thing are physics laws and it has wings. In all professions you have to invest in yourself in the beggining. In the IT world you go though the additional ceritifcation courses and then you get a proper job. Being a doctor is more nightmare in financial view. So what the difference between IT, doctor or some other jobs?
I paid for my TR after CPL and now I've got almost 2000 hours and waiting for the LHS upgrade on bizjet. Other people I know who paid for B737/A320/ATR72 TR, went flying airlines, and now they've got 3000+ hours and also are in upgrade for captains (and somebody is already). But yeah, you can have your ideal principles and do annual 1h recurrents on Seneca to keep your MEP/IR rating and stil writing in Internet how life is hard. Yes, it's always easy to blame somebody or something in your fails, because then it's sort of not your fault. Because if you try and you fail then it's only you to blame. But let me brake this down for you - if you want something, you have to work hard, get used to it, it's all up to you!
I heard/read a lot of blames "Oh I spent 150k+ for my CPL, why should I spend 100k+ for my TR". First of all, If somebody spent 100k+ for the CPL in Europe, then I really doubt about his ability to make a proper desicions, because in EU you easily can get 0 to fATPL for 40-50k max. Second, TR costs you 15k-20k only for a popular B737/A320. And third, I lot of companies still provides bonds for TR or you can agreed on details. And fourth, there are a lot of different types of aircrafts, not only 320/380/737/777. Most of the "against p2f" people from my experience don't want to go for "smaller" aircrafts, but the pilot market for the Pilatus/Mustangs/Caravans/etc is big. Yeah, the salaries are smaller, but if you decided to go to aviation to earn money - you've chosen a wrong job.
Peace!
I paid for my TR after CPL and now I've got almost 2000 hours and waiting for the LHS upgrade on bizjet. Other people I know who paid for B737/A320/ATR72 TR, went flying airlines, and now they've got 3000+ hours and also are in upgrade for captains (and somebody is already). But yeah, you can have your ideal principles and do annual 1h recurrents on Seneca to keep your MEP/IR rating and stil writing in Internet how life is hard. Yes, it's always easy to blame somebody or something in your fails, because then it's sort of not your fault. Because if you try and you fail then it's only you to blame. But let me brake this down for you - if you want something, you have to work hard, get used to it, it's all up to you!
I heard/read a lot of blames "Oh I spent 150k+ for my CPL, why should I spend 100k+ for my TR". First of all, If somebody spent 100k+ for the CPL in Europe, then I really doubt about his ability to make a proper desicions, because in EU you easily can get 0 to fATPL for 40-50k max. Second, TR costs you 15k-20k only for a popular B737/A320. And third, I lot of companies still provides bonds for TR or you can agreed on details. And fourth, there are a lot of different types of aircrafts, not only 320/380/737/777. Most of the "against p2f" people from my experience don't want to go for "smaller" aircrafts, but the pilot market for the Pilatus/Mustangs/Caravans/etc is big. Yeah, the salaries are smaller, but if you decided to go to aviation to earn money - you've chosen a wrong job.
Peace!
I have seen cadets coming out of flight school without a faintest ReAl idea what they are going into. Airlines take a big risk when they hire you on a bonded scheme. So P2f is not the worst idea out there.
There is also supply and demand, as long as there is someone willing to pay for it, they will offer it...
I earned my wings as FI, than progressed to turbo props and than jets and every time I became better and better. I think this makes one a better pilot in the end. Current model is not correct, hence it's creating these loop holes like jump the queue aka P2f.
Soon people will realise that salaries are no longer there, work / life balance, benefits all gone, let alone glamour of our profession. Once supply runs out like it did in Russia, the system will be forced to change.
Anyway, public thinks we just push buttons and A/P does everything.
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Join Date: Apr 2019
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Kasana Police Story.
Oh common guys, stop crying about p2f! You decided to be a pilot, it's a hard job requires experience and a lot of steps to get into that. Why some company should pay for you - with a fresh CPL you're nothing in a commercial aviation, you don't have experience and nobody knows how good you're.
Flying C150 is nothing with flying commercial jet, the common thing are physics laws and it has wings. In all professions you have to invest in yourself in the beggining. In the IT world you go though the additional ceritifcation courses and then you get a proper job. Being a doctor is more nightmare in financial view. So what the difference between IT, doctor or some other jobs?
I paid for my TR after CPL and now I've got almost 2000 hours and waiting for the LHS upgrade on bizjet. Other people I know who paid for B737/A320/ATR72 TR, went flying airlines, and now they've got 3000+ hours and also are in upgrade for captains (and somebody is already). But yeah, you can have your ideal principles and do annual 1h recurrents on Seneca to keep your MEP/IR rating and stil writing in Internet how life is hard. Yes, it's always easy to blame somebody or something in your fails, because then it's sort of not your fault. Because if you try and you fail then it's only you to blame. But let me brake this down for you - if you want something, you have to work hard, get used to it, it's all up to you!
I paid for my TR after CPL and now I've got almost 2000 hours and waiting for the LHS upgrade on bizjet. Other people I know who paid for B737/A320/ATR72 TR, went flying airlines, and now they've got 3000+ hours and also are in upgrade for captains (and somebody is already). But yeah, you can have your ideal principles and do annual 1h recurrents on Seneca to keep your MEP/IR rating and stil writing in Internet how life is hard. Yes, it's always easy to blame somebody or something in your fails, because then it's sort of not your fault. Because if you try and you fail then it's only you to blame. But let me brake this down for you - if you want something, you have to work hard, get used to it, it's all up to you!
I heard/read a lot of blames "Oh I spent 150k+ for my CPL, why should I spend 100k+ for my TR". First of all, If somebody spent 100k+ for the CPL in Europe, then I really doubt about his ability to make a proper desicions, because in EU you easily can get 0 to fATPL for 40-50k max. Second, TR costs you 15k-20k only for a popular B737/A320. And third, I lot of companies still provides bonds for TR or you can agreed on details. And fourth, there are a lot of different types of aircrafts, not only 320/380/737/777. Most of the "against p2f" people from my experience don't want to go for "smaller" aircrafts, but the pilot market for the Pilatus/Mustangs/Caravans/etc is big. Yeah, the salaries are smaller, but if you decided to go to aviation to earn money - you've chosen a wrong job.
Peace!
Peace!
So P2f is not the worst idea out there.
There is also supply and demand, as long as there is someone willing to pay for it, they will offer it...
I earned my wings as FI, than progressed to turbo props and than jets and every time I became better and better. I think this makes one a better pilot in the end. Current model is not correct, hence it's creating these loop holes like jump the queue aka P2f.
Soon people will realise that salaries are no longer there, work / life balance, benefits all gone, let alone glamour of our profession. Once supply runs out like it did in Russia, the system will be forced to change.
Anyway, public thinks we just push buttons and A/P does everything.
There is also supply and demand, as long as there is someone willing to pay for it, they will offer it...
I earned my wings as FI, than progressed to turbo props and than jets and every time I became better and better. I think this makes one a better pilot in the end. Current model is not correct, hence it's creating these loop holes like jump the queue aka P2f.
Soon people will realise that salaries are no longer there, work / life balance, benefits all gone, let alone glamour of our profession. Once supply runs out like it did in Russia, the system will be forced to change.
Anyway, public thinks we just push buttons and A/P does everything.
Join Date: May 2019
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Hi altogether
It seems that there's a lot of anger hidden in this thread. And people don't forget. After reading all the posts here and in other forums Kasana and Wachtelborn must be some crazy guys. Personally I don't know them but heard some rumors about Wachtelborn. It fits to what I read here. Kasana seems to be a ruthless one. Because they work together I suppose they are tarred with the same brush.
But they're not the only ones in this business. Eagle Jet and co are doing business for years and nobody is stopping them. Baltic should be stopped as well. They're surely not working in the best interest of the pilots. Just read their presentation. Horrible.
Everybody must decide on his own but always remember that we're killing our value as pilots.
It seems that there's a lot of anger hidden in this thread. And people don't forget. After reading all the posts here and in other forums Kasana and Wachtelborn must be some crazy guys. Personally I don't know them but heard some rumors about Wachtelborn. It fits to what I read here. Kasana seems to be a ruthless one. Because they work together I suppose they are tarred with the same brush.
But they're not the only ones in this business. Eagle Jet and co are doing business for years and nobody is stopping them. Baltic should be stopped as well. They're surely not working in the best interest of the pilots. Just read their presentation. Horrible.
Everybody must decide on his own but always remember that we're killing our value as pilots.
Join Date: Apr 2019
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I have some news.
Siddhartha concentrates on a new business. In India still plaintiffs waiting for updates. Many people never saw the money again. Rumours say kasana paid some judges to postpone a final ruling. Family is known for connections. But the victims don't sleep and they are looking for ways to get their money back. I guess he hided the stolen money with Wachtelborn's support. For sure it was Intex and now kasana has a stake in Sky4u.
Siddhartha concentrates on a new business. In India still plaintiffs waiting for updates. Many people never saw the money again. Rumours say kasana paid some judges to postpone a final ruling. Family is known for connections. But the victims don't sleep and they are looking for ways to get their money back. I guess he hided the stolen money with Wachtelborn's support. For sure it was Intex and now kasana has a stake in Sky4u.
Join Date: May 2019
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Own research
Hi there. I tried to ask some guys that had some training with sky. They told me the training wasn't outstanding but somewhat cheap. They wouldn't go there for a type rating. Some of them were offered a job at Air Baltic (?). Cannot confirm it but it was kind of pay2fly. Salary pretty low and no guarantee after one season of flying like a mule. So I guess they're still in this business. Really don't know why RYR chose them as partner. Must be some personal connection. In the end you can't trust Sky's CEO. Anything they offer you will fill their own pockets.
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Hi there. I tried to ask some guys that had some training with sky. They told me the training wasn't outstanding but somewhat cheap. They wouldn't go there for a type rating. Some of them were offered a job at Air Baltic (?). Cannot confirm it but it was kind of pay2fly. Salary pretty low and no guarantee after one season of flying like a mule. So I guess they're still in this business. Really don't know why RYR chose them as partner. Must be some personal connection. In the end you can't trust Sky's CEO. Anything they offer you will fill their own pockets.
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always two sides to the stories
One should ask why they stopped doing type ratings. Last year Cockpit4u took over several students for 737 TR that were originally supposed to do it at Sky4u. Behind the curtain the client said it was a complete chaos with them. Remember my words and the connections of sky before you choose.
but what was disturbing was that SKY4u just fired their Head of Training Carsten Heblich at that time, a captain with Aerologic Cargo, and he must have left that chaos behind because of not doing a proper job but rather was trying to set up his own ATO "CABE" by using SKY4u books behind their back, but he failed greatly.
According to my friends observation, SKY4u CEO was meeting with Heblich on the rooftop of the office and he could hear what was going on while having a cigarette, Heblich threatening to sue SKY4u and "destroy them"... nice people in aviation!
finally my friend did the type rating with SKY4u and they where absolutely professional, even came up with a quick solution for the base training after Primera went bancrupt, where many touch and go were done before and now was not possible anymore...
make up your own mind, folks, visit the ATOs before deciding where to train...
peace...
