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Ryanair loses court case in The Netherlands

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Ryanair loses court case in The Netherlands

Old 23rd Apr 2019, 15:05
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Ryanair loses court case in The Netherlands

Ryanair has been sentenced to pay 8 pilots in excess of 3 million euro in total for unlawful redundancy.

In Dutch:

https://www.nu.nl/economie/5857083/r...e-piloten.html
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 15:16
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I'm not a legal expert but I believe this decision can now by used as a precedent across the EU.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 15:54
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Originally Posted by Eric Janson View Post
I'm not a legal expert but I believe this decision can now by used as a precedent across the EU.
Nope because like everything this will go to appeal and figure it will be 4-5 years before it gets there.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 15:58
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Originally Posted by Eric Janson View Post
I'm not a legal expert but I believe this decision can now by used as a precedent across the EU.
The employment laws vary a lot between EU countries, so unless this is something decided by one of the EU courts, it's not really applicable at all. And then, even if it were, before you can appeal to that instance, you'd be long broke as in some countries it can take decades to reach the point where you could even appeal to say ECHR.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 16:36
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They lose big time.

https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/in...eyword=Ryanair

and as I said in the ryanair thread elsewhere: “uitvoerbaar bij voorraad” so they have to pay up immediately regardless of an appeal.

In this link some text is in english, so read an weep.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 18:15
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Can't read Dutch (or a mix?) but if 3M is the total for all 8 persons then it seems quite cheap actually.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 18:48
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Originally Posted by pax2908 View Post
Can't read Dutch (or a mix?) but if 3M is the total for all 8 persons then it seems quite cheap actually.
Can read Dutch (and know a bit or two about employment law): €3 million total in 8 wrongful termination suits is quite high for Dutch standards. Normal termination would have cost Ryanair about €400.000, the other €2.6M is compensation for unfair behaviour on Ryanair's side. (The judge had some choice words about the way RYR handled the EHEH strike and "negotiations" with the union.)

And no, this verdict is based on Dutch employment law, which is sufficiently different from the law in other countries that it does not set an EU precedent.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 22:10
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Originally Posted by Eric Janson View Post
I'm not a legal expert but I believe this decision can now by used as a precedent across the EU.
No. Legal precedent is fudamental to common law used by most anglo-saxon countries (US, UK, Canada, etc.) and many of the former colonies. Continental European countries use civil law, where rulings are based on the Civil Code (or Employment Law in this case) and precedents are usually only admissible if there is some ambiguity in applying the relevant statutes. As others have said, each EU country will have its own Employment Law, which will apply to any case in that jurisdiction. However paradoxically the ruling CAN be used as a precedent in the UK which has a different legal system, whether successfully or not is another question.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 22:48
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Union Busting proven!

So
RYR shut down Eindhoven base to crush the Union due to the strike, according to the Judge.
They lied to the Court and mistreated and threatened the Pilots.
All EIN flights are now flying in reverse, so no economic reason to close Base.

All according to the sentencing.
Time well spent for anyone looking for the Truth about RYR!
Quite entertaining for an old Union Pilot , I must say.
Google translate it quite well, I think.
So , The Pilot is owed 480 000 Euro at 1 June 2019 by RYR.

Regards
Cpt B


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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 22:52
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I have just finished reading all 22 pages of the court ruling. It is an eye-watering, piece by piece slaughter of Ryanair as an employer.
I expected this outcome, however I did not expect the judiciary to be so outspoken concerning the badness/irresponsiblity/disregard towards its employees of Ryanair as an “employer”.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 23:23
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Indeed Fox.
The same happened in Bremen when they went on strike.
Base closed.
Dublin, Stansted or Kaunas Base only offer!
Charming, dont You think?
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 23:09
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This made me smile. Ryanair getting their arse handed to them by a fair legal system. Beautiful.

Story in English -

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2...-compensation/
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Old 25th Apr 2019, 02:53
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First things first: the way that RYR handled this, sucks. I have never flown them and never will.

That said, this is not something to celebrate, for multiple reasons. First of all, this decision is based on the earlier decision, which was a preliminary 1-judge verdict. Second, even if it stands (RYR have already announced their appeals), and the former employees do get what they are awarded in this judgement, they still need to pay a significant amount of tax (mind you, that's 52% in .nl). All in all, they will be out of cash in three years.

Well, not too bad, you'd think. I've got three years to find another job. Remember that you now have three years to find another job while you're out of a job, have to maintain your proficiency, and have on your resume that you sued your previous employer.

Either way, this poor crew lost big. Remember that this is a very personal thing for them, but nothing personal for RYR's attorneys. It's just a cost to RYR, but many nights awake for the individuals involved. The monetary awards just makes it hurt slightly less, if it is upheld on appeals. Moral of the story: RYR sucks as an employer (but what else is new?).
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Old 25th Apr 2019, 11:22
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Originally Posted by ph-sbe View Post
Well, not too bad, you'd think. I've got three years to find another job. Remember that you now have three years to find another job while you're out of a job, have to maintain your proficiency, and have on your resume that you sued your previous employer.

Either way, this poor crew lost big. Remember that this is a very personal thing for them, but nothing personal for RYR's attorneys. It's just a cost to RYR, but many nights awake for the individuals involved. The monetary awards just makes it hurt slightly less, if it is upheld on appeals. Moral of the story: RYR sucks as an employer (but what else is new?).
I honestly don't think the fact of "sueing your previous employer" will matter too much for any decent employer. Nor do I think many will ask about it, if pilots are really needed. Nor do I think any of them will list "Flew for Ryanair from 20xx - 2019, sued their asses, hehe" on their CV. News cycle will move on in a bit, recruiters and HR departments will forget, they will be flying again before the end of the year if they are motivated enough. Perhaps not in their country of choice, as the market is small in the Netherlands, but that's something everyone has to deal with.
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Old 25th Apr 2019, 11:30
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Originally Posted by Intrance View Post
I honestly don't think the fact of "sueing your previous employer" will matter too much for any decent employer. Nor do I think many will ask about it, if pilots are really needed. Nor do I think any of them will list "Flew for Ryanair from 20xx - 2019, sued their asses, hehe" on their CV. News cycle will move on in a bit, recruiters and HR departments will forget, they will be flying again before the end of the year if they are motivated enough. Perhaps not in their country of choice, as the market is small in the Netherlands, but that's something everyone has to deal with.
So you won and may take years before you get any compensation if at all. Now get another job in a different country IF you can. Probably have 3-4 years of stress because of it. Ryanair offered you a base in another country earning same or more.

As for HR Departments, on a borderline between 2 candidates one of whom sued their employer, balancing out risk you will avoid.

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Old 25th Apr 2019, 11:50
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Doubt it will prevent them from trying something similar somewhere else if push comes to shove. Regardless of the verdict, it wasn’t Ryanair that suffered here. The stress on the former employees would have been untold. Ryanair will dust itself off and move on, it won’t alter its methods. It would take a massive cultural upheaval in management for that to happen.
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Old 27th Apr 2019, 07:35
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
So you won and may take years before you get any compensation if at all.
Dutch labour law works differently than what you portray. In this case, Ryanair was sentenced to pay immediately regardless of whether they lodge an appeal. You could then say the plaintiffs only have the money 'on loan' until any possible appeals have been settled, but Dutch law is pretty cut and dry in cases such as this. Thus the chances of Ryanair being successful in their appeal is somewhere between slim and none.
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Old 27th Apr 2019, 21:14
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Originally Posted by SMT Member View Post
Dutch labour law works differently than what you portray. In this case, Ryanair was sentenced to pay immediately regardless of whether they lodge an appeal. You could then say the plaintiffs only have the money 'on loan' until any possible appeals have been settled, but Dutch law is pretty cut and dry in cases such as this. Thus the chances of Ryanair being successful in their appeal is somewhere between slim and none.
When people claim stuff is cut and dried they have never been in court with a lawyer. They see things very differently.
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Old 27th Apr 2019, 22:18
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
When people claim stuff is cut and dried they have never been in court with a lawyer. They see things very differently.

That lawyer should try a dutch labor case, and find out how cut and dry works. Particularly after reading this verdict and the wording used. Ryanair is taking a huge gamble, which is already backfiring on them.
But hey, go right ahead and find out.
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Old 27th Apr 2019, 23:26
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Originally Posted by BluSdUp View Post
All EIN flights are now flying in reverse, so no economic reason to close Base.
What if Ryanair can prove that they have a better financial result by flying the flights in and out compared to the additional expense of running a base as well?
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