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SXF runway blocked

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SXF runway blocked

Old 20th Apr 2019, 21:21
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Oh oh. Some questions to answer for LH Bombardier Aviation Service... News from Spiegel online:
Ministry checks whether Lufthansa subsidiary has made maintenance errors
Following the dangerous crash landing of a government aircraft in Berlin-Schönefeld earlier this week, Federal Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen is investigating whether there are systemic problems with the maintenance of the so-called White Fleet by a Lufthansa subsidiary. As early as Wednesday, General Flight Safety was therefore instructed to investigate the Tuesday accident as well as several other incidents of the past months.
The investigation by the chief flight investigator of the Bundeswehr is concerned with the question of whether the external maintenance of government jets was carried out with the necessary care. The investigators already suspect that the massive problems of a "Global 5000" government aircraft on Tuesday were caused by incorrect wiring of the spoilers on the wings of the jet.
Since the business jet came directly from Lufthansa Bombardier Aviation Services' maintenance operations, it is reasonable to assume that it was not operated carefully. The incorrect adjustment of the spoilers was extremely dangerous. The pilots were already in a dangerous slant in the air, and there was even a stall. During the emergency landing the jet missed the runway, slid over the lawn and was massively damaged.
This is not the first time that there have been doubts about the maintenance of government aircraft by Lufthansa.
More here: https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...a-1263809.html

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
MrsDoubtfire is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2019, 15:04
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Originally Posted by MrsDoubtfire View Post
Oh oh. Some questions to answer for LH Bombardier Aviation Service... News from Spiegel online:
Ministry checks whether Lufthansa subsidiary has made maintenance errors
Following the dangerous crash landing of a government aircraft in Berlin-Schönefeld earlier this week, Federal Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen is investigating whether there are systemic problems with the maintenance of the so-called White Fleet by a Lufthansa subsidiary. As early as Wednesday, General Flight Safety was therefore instructed to investigate the Tuesday accident as well as several other incidents of the past months.
The investigation by the chief flight investigator of the Bundeswehr is concerned with the question of whether the external maintenance of government jets was carried out with the necessary care. The investigators already suspect that the massive problems of a "Global 5000" government aircraft on Tuesday were caused by incorrect wiring of the spoilers on the wings of the jet.
Since the business jet came directly from Lufthansa Bombardier Aviation Services' maintenance operations, it is reasonable to assume that it was not operated carefully. The incorrect adjustment of the spoilers was extremely dangerous. The pilots were already in a dangerous slant in the air, and there was even a stall. During the emergency landing the jet missed the runway, slid over the lawn and was massively damaged.
This is not the first time that there have been doubts about the maintenance of government aircraft by Lufthansa.
More here: https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...a-1263809.html

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
I doubt incorrect wiring, more than likely incorrect electronic rigging (after mechanical rig, spoilers have to be electronically rigged, so computers know where they are).

Ttfn
ivor toolbox is offline  
Old 26th Apr 2019, 16:57
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Torque tube assembly

was incorrectly wired or mounted by LBAS. Spoilers were actuated on the wrong side. (mirrored) Pilots couldnt detect it during pretaxi check as the indicator shows spoiler activity only, but not on which side. Translation from Spiegel today.
threemiles is offline  
Old 26th Apr 2019, 17:17
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by threemiles View Post
was incorrectly wired or mounted by LBAS. Spoilers were actuated on the wrong side. (mirrored) Pilots couldnt detect it during pretaxi check as the indicator shows spoiler activity only, but not on which side. Translation from Spiegel today.
That bit in bold is nonsense, as the synoptic display posted in post #22 shows - all spoiler panels are depicted individually on the display.
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Old 27th Apr 2019, 05:11
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mad (Flt) Scientist View Post
That bit in bold is nonsense, as the synoptic display posted in post #22 shows - all spoiler panels are depicted individually on the display.
Be it so, also, I would expect that there is a visual live outside check by the AMPs, demanded by the AMM, after work was performed on a critical component like this one. Safety category: catastrophical, no doubt.
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Old 27th Apr 2019, 19:41
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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According to BILD, a chain of mistakes by maintenance AND pilots leads to the near crash landing. It has a paywall, so I translated some parts.
https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politi...ogin.bild.html

According to BILD information, sloppiness is supposed to be the main cause. In concrete terms: Lufthansa's technicians as well as the air force pilots did not carry out all the required checks. Officially, the investigations are still being carried out by the "General Flugsicherheit" of the Bundeswehr.
...
Meanwhile Lufthansa circles say that a chain of mistakes and carelessness led to the near crash. Error 1: Incorrect wiring of the spoilers on the wings. So much was known. Reason: Maintenance breakdowns at the responsible maintenance company "Lufthansa Bombardier Aviation Services". Error 2: Missing checks! After completion of maintenance, the technicians must actually release the aircraft on the basis of a checklist. Lufthansa Technik confirmed this to BILD: "Regardless of the specific case, a maintenance and overhaul company releases an aircraft from service after maintenance or overhaul work has been carried out". However, the government aircraft obviously did not receive such a carefully performed check to declare "airworthiness". Error 3: Obvious negligence on the part of the pilots. Because they also have to carry out routine checks before take-off, during which the wrong wiring of the spoilers should have been noticed on the ground. And even in the air there would be possibilities to switch off the wrongly wired spoilers. That was omitted.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
MrsDoubtfire is offline  
Old 27th Apr 2019, 21:49
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Although I do not know the exact technical problem they had, If they suspected (the pilots) spoiler problems, they could have deactivated them.
Jet Jockey A4 is offline  
Old 28th Apr 2019, 07:33
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Where in the QRH is that procedure? (De-activate the spoilers).
Noeyedear is offline  
Old 28th Apr 2019, 09:32
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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N

Where in the QRH is that procedure? (De-activate the spoilers).
It's not, but if you understand the detail of your aircraft's systems then you could make a sensible deduction at how to do it. Primary flight controls on the original Global are all mechanically controlled, hydraulically actuated. Spoilers are electrically controlled (FCU) and hydraulically actuated.

The FCUs do lots of important tasks, but nothing that I can't do without when I may be losing control of the aircraft. So into the EMSCDU, trip FCU 1 & 2 power A & B!
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 09:51
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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So, as I suspected, something was wired incorrectly. Which brings us back to the question I asked earlier.

With the incorrect wiring, would the display show what had been asked for, or what was actually happening?
Super VC-10 is offline  
Old 28th Apr 2019, 10:42
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Super VC-10 View Post
With the incorrect wiring, would the display show what had been asked for, or what was actually happening?
There wouldn't be much point in having the display if it didn't show, for example, a spoiler that failed to move when a controls check was carried out.

So, without knowing the GLEX family in detail, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't actual surface position that is being displayed.

DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 28th Apr 2019, 11:43
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
Anybody like me when I was about 12 who very foolishly tried crossing over their hands on their bicycle handlebars to see how difficult it would be, fell off very quickly
I have never previously encountered anyone else stupid enough to do that. I would have been a bit older.

I say I fell off instantaneously.

I wondered if it might "solve" these though -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Reverse-S...-/173148288866
Reverse Steer Bike - Fair Ground Bicycle Challenge
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 11:59
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Super VC-10 View Post
So, as I suspected, something was wired incorrectly. Which brings us back to the question I asked earlier.

With the incorrect wiring, would the display show what had been asked for, or what was actually happening?
mjv seems to answer your question here - actual spoiler position is sensed.

Originally Posted by mjv View Post
... which handle the spoiler pairs FCU 1 Channel A does the spoilers 1 on both sides and B does the 2’s on both sides.
...
feedback is done by LVDT’s for controlling and indication. Only the ground spoilers come with old fashion targets as they are either out or in.
LVDT are position sensors. Linear Variable Differential Transformer. Produce a changing AC voltage depending on the sensed position.

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Old 28th Apr 2019, 14:19
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Luftwaffe Test/Ferry flight.
I wonder how this would have developed if the crew of 3 would have had (enough) parachutes onboard.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 15:14
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Slow and curious View Post
Luftwaffe Test/Ferry flight.
I wonder how this would have developed if the crew of 3 would have had (enough) parachutes onboard.

Getting out while wearing a chute might be a tad interesting.


It's not a 727 or DC-9.
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