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AA A321 takes off after smashing ground sign

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AA A321 takes off after smashing ground sign

Old 12th Apr 2019, 09:45
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BluSdUp View Post
Arch Du Liber!
Which, being interpreted (and de-autocorrected to Ach! Du Liebe) meaneth: F'ing Hell!
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 11:01
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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So...

The aircraft struck something on the ground while taxiing and no one onboard noticed anything before the takeoff?

The pilots did not feel a thump?

The flight attendants did not feel, hear or even see anything?

The passengers on the left side of the aircraft with window seats did not see anything?

The pilots reported problems with the handling of the aircraft at takeoff but yet climbed to FL200?

What's going on here?
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 11:43
  #23 (permalink)  
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Is it conceivable a part of the sign remained hooked on the wing for a few seconds?
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 11:49
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jet Jockey A4 View Post
So...

The aircraft struck something on the ground while taxiing and no one onboard noticed anything before the takeoff?

The pilots did not feel a thump?

The flight attendants did not feel, hear or even see anything?

The passengers on the left side of the aircraft with window seats did not see anything?

The pilots reported problems with the handling of the aircraft at takeoff but yet climbed to FL200?

What's going on here?
What appears to have happened is that for yet undetermined reasons, right at rotation the aircraft lurched to the left with a significant wing drop. During the ensuing excursion, the left wingtip struck the 5000' remaining marker before becoming airborne. Passengers and flight attendants did report the damage to the flight deck, and the aircraft returned to JFK.

That is about all we know right now. Let the investigators investigate.
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 11:57
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Avherald has indicated where the sign is located on the map:


The signs there are what 4-6ft tall?? How much did this aircraft bank? With wind right on the nose?? Are they not allowing for sufficient spacing during single rwy ops?
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 12:00
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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This should never happen.
All ground furniture adjacent to a runway or taxiway MUST be frangible. If an airport fails to comply with regulations someone is due for a severe talking to.
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 12:34
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Ancient Geek View Post
This should never happen.
All ground furniture adjacent to a runway or taxiway MUST be frangible. If an airport fails to comply with regulations someone is due for a severe talking to.
Just because something is frangible (i.e. will break or yield on impact), doesn't mean you can hit it without sustaining any damage.
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 12:35
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jet Jockey A4 View Post
So...

The aircraft struck something on the ground while taxiing....
Not during taxiing, it happend short after takeoff.

skadi
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 12:55
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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5000 feet remaining

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Old 12th Apr 2019, 13:20
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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What's the width of that strip? CL!
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 13:48
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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The width of the strip if it is standard (which I think it is) is 150ft plus (looks like) 60ft shoulder either side. What position the aircraft must have been in to hit that sign on rotation I can only imagine. All I can say is I am glad I wasn't a passenger on that flight!
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 14:10
  #32 (permalink)  
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yikes.

the damage is the outcome of a weirdness not the cause. QAR/DFDR/CVR will be interesting.
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 14:55
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Per the Port Authority website:
Runway 13R-31L is 14,511 feet long by 200 feet wide and is one of the longest commercial runways in North America.

https://www.panynj.gov/air-cargo/jfk-runways.html
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 15:53
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Citing AVH,
"According to information The Aviation Herald received on Apr 12th 2019 ground tracks reveal the aircraft was dragging its left wing tip for quite some distance on the ground, the ground tracks even suggest the aircraft came close to ground loop.

The aircraft and left wing tip became airborne just ahead of the runway sign, the left wing tip impacted the sign, parts of which became embedded in the left wing tip. The wing also sustained according damage to its underside near the wingtip."
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 16:06
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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An A321 has a wingspan of 35.8 m, according to Wikipedia.

Assume it's on the centerline of a 61-meter (200-foot) wide runway.

30.5 m, runway centerline to edge - 17.9, half the wingspan of an A321 = 12.6 m (41 feet), distance from wingtip to runway edge.

An A321 should have a clearance of 12.6 m, or 41 feet, from each wingtip to each edge of the runway.

From the runway edge to the sign that was struck looks like another 75 feet or so, just guessing from the image shown. Let's call it about 22 m.

12.6 m wingtip to runway edge + 22 m runway edge to sign = 34.6 m wingtip to sign.

That would place the sign about 35 m (115 feet) from the wingtip when the aircraft is on centerline.

If all this stuff is correct then that machine must have been quite far off the runway when it hit that sign, about 120 feet laterally displaced on a runway that is 100 feet wide from centerline to edge. Wow!

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Old 12th Apr 2019, 17:48
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Ya think....

..... when he rolled LEFT on rotation he might just have moved LEFT as a result, and collected the sign on the LEFT side of the runway, his LEFT wing being low enough to clip it.?

Do the newsrags deliberately mis-state the facts to allow them to spice up the headlines.? I think they do. Including the almighty Beeb.
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 18:05
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
The signs there are what 4-6ft tall?? How much did this aircraft bank? With wind right on the nose?? Are they not allowing for sufficient spacing during single rwy ops?
They were not running single runway ops. Arriving 4R and 4L, departing 4L and 31L intersection KE.

The wind given by tower prior to takeoff was 010 at 17.
Where do people get wind straight down the nose?
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 18:28
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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04/158 (a3244/19) - rwy 31l 5000ft dist remaining sign missing. 11 apr 05:13 2019 until 25 may 02:00
2019. Created: 11 apr 05:13 2019
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 21:16
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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You can guarantee your margins will always be reduced by JFK. Pick the most into wind runway then pick another, an obsession with that Canarsie, and VOR approaches ....itís like stepping back to 1975
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Old 12th Apr 2019, 21:31
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 737 Driver View Post
What appears to have happened is that for yet undetermined reasons, right at rotation the aircraft lurched to the left with a significant wing drop. During the ensuing excursion, the left wingtip struck the 5000' remaining marker before becoming airborne. Passengers and flight attendants did report the damage to the flight deck, and the aircraft returned to JFK.

That is about all we know right now. Let the investigators investigate.
Thank you.
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