Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

China Ground 737MAX

Wikiposts
Search
Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

China Ground 737MAX

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 12th Mar 2019, 15:50
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Germany's minister for transportation and digital infrastructure (yes, i know, weird combination) blocks the 738M from german airspace.

See this tweet (german) from the official twitter account of that department.
Denti is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 15:56
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Turkish Airlines to ground their 12 MAXs. New user, can't post a link, just see the tweet by @yhyustun (SVP, press relations)

About TK’ operations with B737 MAX type aircrafts Turkish Airlines has stopped its operations that conducted with 12 B737 MAX type passenger aircrafts located in its fleet, until further notice. Concerning decision will start to be applied as from 13rd March 2019.
dogac is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 15:59
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,815
Received 199 Likes on 92 Posts
Originally Posted by SteinarN
I am waiting for EASA to anounce a closure of its airspace for the Max.
You will have a long wait. EASA has no authority to close any nation's airspace. It could, however, suspend the Max's Type Certificate.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 16:01
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,194
Received 388 Likes on 240 Posts
How many airlines did what American and Southwest did? I understand that both of those airlines have an installed option (why it's an 'option' I have no idea, I'll let wiser heads reflect on that) that gives the pilots AoA displays. Given that AoA signal appears to figure in this back up system's operation, seems a smart move to me. What puzzles me is why any airline would not, but I am biased since I believe that pilots are supposed to fly aircraft, not guess at what an aircraft is doing.

When I look at this system from a systems perspective, it is a back up system whose intended function is to avoid a stall/accident.
Fix one problem, raise another one.
Nothing new under the sun.

I saw an interesting observation here regarding the Brazilian Certifying authority.
The Brazilian Certifying authority did, with Boeing's involvement, require MCAS training. What that training was would be interesting. I would assume somebody from GOL, a Max operator, would know what that was. If we find out we might know whether that type of training would have helped the Lion Air crew.
I am not sure if they called for this before or after the Lion Air accident. If before, that leaves open, to me, the question of why didn't all certifying authorities, FAA, CAA, Chinese, Norwegian... all of them, make that same demand?
Again, this is my bias showing since I do not believe that something that moves the flight controls should be hidden from, or a mystery to, the pilots.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 16:10
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Norway
Age: 57
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
You will have a long wait. EASA has no authority to close any nation's airspace. It could, however, suspend the Max's Type Certificate.
Ahh, ok, my bad, thanks.
SteinarN is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 16:25
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Vienna
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
I understand that both of those airlines have an installed option (why it's an 'option' I have no idea, I'll let wiser heads reflect on that) that gives the pilots AoA displays.
Upselling.
derjodel is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 16:29
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,194
Received 388 Likes on 240 Posts
derjodel, would you care to elaborate? That answer is at best incomplete. (SW flies only 73's but American flies a variety of models. I've a friend who flies A320s for American).
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 16:31
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
How many airlines did what American and Southwest did? I understand that both of those airlines have an installed option (why it's an 'option' I have no idea, I'll let wiser heads reflect on that) that gives the pilots AoA displays. Given that AoA signal appears to figure in this back up system's operation, seems a smart move to me. What puzzles me is why any airline would not, but I am biased since I believe that pilots are supposed to fly aircraft, not guess at what an aircraft is doing.
.
I believe that customer option is not available with other customer options, so the airline in question has to choose which ones they want. As real estate on the PFD is at a premium (well, probably not on the MAX, never flown it and it has quite large screens) there is only so many places where any indicator like that can go. I flew 737NGs that had in the same space where American has its AoA display, a round dial RA display, as the space at the bottom of the AI where it would otherwise be was taken up by some other indication. So Boeing offers two different round dial displays for that position on the PFD, which show two completely different things.
Denti is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 16:37
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Bedfordshire
Age: 27
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
CAA bans 737 MAX 8 from UK airspace.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...-asia-47536502

this is an excellent move. A few days too late.
CAP A330 is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 17:22
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Not over the Rockies anymore.
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Why? Other than all the experts on here no one yet knows what caused this.
act700 is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 17:24
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 2,451
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 5 Posts
Airspace bans might be less associated with the aircraft - at least until there is more information on this accident, than in the confidence of the certification process.

Considering what is currently known about Lion, Boeing’s proposals for modification, and the FAA position, then many National Authorities actions’ could be questioning their trust in the Max certification.
Various posts have cited concerns, perhaps these have hardened.

An interesting thread around these aspects is developing in Tech Log Boeing advice on "aerodynamically relieving airloads" using manual stabilizer trim
#15
safetypee is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 17:29
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Age: 78
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Aerolineas Argentinas has also grounded the MAX fleet yesterday, waiting for some explanations from Boeing.

Last edited by Jorge_Vilarrubi; 12th Mar 2019 at 17:29. Reason: incomplete text
Jorge_Vilarrubi is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 17:36
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,815
Received 199 Likes on 92 Posts
EASA has now suspended Max operations across Europe, effective 1900Z today.

https://www.easa.europa.eu/newsroom-...rations-europe
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 17:54
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,815
Received 199 Likes on 92 Posts
Originally Posted by CAP A330
murmurings that if airlines where told anything unofficially they would be grounding a/c.
What does that mean?

The post to which you were replying was asking why the CAA had issued their ban. Given that EASA followed suit a few hours later, the reason for it is fairly obvious, though there may be an element of the CAA wishing to assert that it is capable of acting independently of EASA, as it will have to do post-Brexit.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 18:21
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Norway
Age: 57
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
India is grounding the Max.

SteinarN is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 18:56
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Norway
Age: 57
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
United Arab Emirates grounding the Max.

Twitter
SteinarN is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 19:17
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Norway
Age: 57
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Now Kuwait has banned its airspace for the Max, sorry, no link.
SteinarN is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 19:25
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Has anyone questioned the ridiculous speeds (380 knots at one stage) while this plane was struggling? Were the flaps retracted, if not how could the airframe have survived this onslaught (correct me if I'm wrong max speed flap 5 is 180 knots). If the flaps were retracted, wouldn't that be suicidal at 900 feet?
Hamble_man is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 20:02
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Norway
Age: 57
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pressure is really building on FAA.

Senator Tec Cruz, chairman of a subcommittee on aviation and space is saying it would be prudent to join other regulators and thereby he is urging FAA to ground the Max.
He also say he intends to hold a hearing to investigate these crashes.

Reuters
SteinarN is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2019, 23:11
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
One has to ask that if this aircraft was made by Airbus would the FAA have already grounded it?
LTNman is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.