Ethiopian airliner down in Africa
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And if HAL has trimmed you down and also added bucu force to pull up with both hands needed by both pilots - then what ?
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I'm not jumping to any conclusion. I said that IF the stab trim switches are found to not be in the cutoff position.
However if the crew followed the recent procedure outlined by Boeing then that's a different story.
However if the crew followed the recent procedure outlined by Boeing then that's a different story.
Was it a certification requirement that MCAS had to be installed on the B737 Max? One presumes that if MCAS had not been installed these accidents would not have occurred. You have to be careful that when you attempt to fix one problem (potential stall) that you don't generate other issues. Are we trying to make modern aircraft too "idiot proof"?
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The trim wheel is outside of the field of vision and the stick shaker is loud enough to cover the spinning trim wheel's noise. Add to that the DON'T SINK EGPWS warning and it's not that easy to catch.
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The trim wheel moves by itself all the time. When is it supposed to and when isn't it?
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Was it a certification requirement that MCAS had to be installed on the B737 Max? One presumes that if MCAS had not been installed these accidents would not have occurred. You have to be careful that when you attempt to fix one problem (potential stall) that you don't generate other issues. Are we trying to make modern aircraft too "idiot proof"?
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Is this a real thing at some carriers? It’s against SOP to hand fly in IMC conditions? Could this be part of the problem? We have a whole new generation of pilots that in essence aren’t really pilots? To me, this is downright scary. When I train new FO’s (IOE), they aren’t allowed to use automation until they have convinced me that they can hand fly the jet (737), preferably in IMC conditions. When we administer PC’s (a rarity these days), students still have to demonstrate the abitlity to hand fly a single engine ILS down to minimums.
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but honestly, next year when you are flying your Max and it starts to act up, what's the first thing you're going to suspect?
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Thanks. Therefore and for argument sake, if these incidents were in fact “runaway stabilizers” we could expect the same tragic result. MCAS should have been interpreted as a “ RUNAWAY STAB. “ for which pilots are repeatedly drilled in the simulator.
MCAS: parameters for operation.
1. Autopilot OFF
2. Steep Bank/ Turn. ( what angle ?)
3. Flaps retracted.
4. High AOA
If the above 4 are correct, how many of those parameters were NOT met in Ethiopia. Nevertheless, prolonged trimming with the AP off instinctively requires stab switches OFF. I believe with the flaps NOT retracted, the Trim rate is increased as compared to flaps retracted. A runaway trim with flaps extended will very quickly overpower the pilot, the time frame allowed to identify and react appropriately, by selecting both switches OFF is extremely short if this occurs just after lift off. Once the pilot starts fighting the Yoke with both hands I suspect his mind will become focused on the physical deminishing the ability to keep thinking.
MCAS: parameters for operation.
1. Autopilot OFF
2. Steep Bank/ Turn. ( what angle ?)
3. Flaps retracted.
4. High AOA
If the above 4 are correct, how many of those parameters were NOT met in Ethiopia. Nevertheless, prolonged trimming with the AP off instinctively requires stab switches OFF. I believe with the flaps NOT retracted, the Trim rate is increased as compared to flaps retracted. A runaway trim with flaps extended will very quickly overpower the pilot, the time frame allowed to identify and react appropriately, by selecting both switches OFF is extremely short if this occurs just after lift off. Once the pilot starts fighting the Yoke with both hands I suspect his mind will become focused on the physical deminishing the ability to keep thinking.
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When you are reading erratic indications on your instruments and it is consistantly trimming down, switch it off, you might save some lives.
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Thought Experiment
Air noise as the airspeed increases
Adrenaline is pumping
Your blood is coursing through your veins... into your eardrums
CA directs FO “Stab Trim Cutout Switches to Cutout”
PM says “What! I can’t here you. Say again!”
That F**king Horn
CA “I SAID, STAB TRIM SWITCHES TO CUTOUT”
FO “STAB TRIM SWITCHES CONFIRM”
CA “YES, AFFIRMATIVE!”
FO “BOTH?”
CA “YES! DO IT!”
You struggle as you pull
You need both Hands
Airspeed is increasingly and so is the forces on the stabilizer
OMG the throttles are still at firewall
CA “Pull the Theottle back!”
FO “WHAT! I can’t hear you.”
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Is your point that the pilots are blameless if they didn't cut off the trim switches?
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Thought Experiment
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No, my point was that the trim wheel moves by itself all the time. It's not unexpected, then throw in up to 9 different cautions/indications and it's easy to disregard.
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Next time I'm SLF . . .
. . . I wanna fly with reamer, not one of those ordinary pilots who are affected by work overload, startle factor, baffling PFD readings and alarming acft behavior, at high speed and low altitude. I mean, who wouldn't want to?