Ethiopian airliner down in Africa
I just read this https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47562727
Last edited by Nil by mouth; 13th Mar 2019 at 20:28. Reason: Already posted
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Amazing reading.
Basically what it confirms is that for competent well rested crews the potential MCAS issues are a minor speed bump. Doesn't mean that it isn't a very real issue but the bottom line specific to Lion Air is simple and compelling....crew error. As for the current tragedy we really don't know enough but it doesn't have any of the trim related oscillation seen in Flight 610...
At some point the various regulatory agencies will need to figure it out.
Basically what it confirms is that for competent well rested crews the potential MCAS issues are a minor speed bump. Doesn't mean that it isn't a very real issue but the bottom line specific to Lion Air is simple and compelling....crew error. As for the current tragedy we really don't know enough but it doesn't have any of the trim related oscillation seen in Flight 610...
At some point the various regulatory agencies will need to figure it out.
Seriously though, can orders be cancelled because of scenarios that we are now witnessing?
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No doubt political pressure to ground the Max fleet from the president congress was considerable, as was commercial pressure not to from Boeing. The new factual evidence was apparently sufficient to make/change the FAA position.
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RTM Boy, a great post. I'm wondering whether this will be Boeing's DH Comet moment, whereby a technological solution to a (possible) problem may be overtaken/overwhelmed by public opinion. The 737 Max may be an exceptional aircraft but it would take very little for the mood to markedly swing in the direction of the A321 NEO.
However, Boeing were not exactly pioneering a whole new technology almost a decade prior to anyone else as de Havilland were...
in fact you could say they were taking retrograde steps, or at least reactive rather than proactive solutions.
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I'm wondering if there was any credibility to the earlier eyewitness reports suggesting that debris was falling from the plane, possibly a luggage explosion and breach. But just as a hypothetical, how severe a breach of a luggage compartment could an in flight plane tolerate before loss of control?
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Dennis Muilenburg, president, chief executive and chairman of Boeing, said: "We are doing everything we can to understand the cause of the accidents in partnership with the investigators, deploy safety enhancements and help ensure this does not happen again."
Boeing today appears little related to the Boeing of old.
Boeing has been conspicuous by their silence.
Naturally the in house and external retained legal people advised silence.
No doubt numerous PR people are working the phones and media to spin this.
All with an eye on the stock ticker.'
'Partnerships' were the way the new Boeing outsourced the 787.
Partnerships were the way Boeing 'diversified' the development and build costs.
Remember the roll out? The plywood doors?
Remember the battery fires? Route cause unknown. MIT scientists among many others involved in battery technology concerned long term risk not mitigated.
Business schools have pumped out MBA graduates all focused on the 'cost' and financial risk aversion.
When safety and profit compete, it is almost a sure bet that the former loses.
It is possible that 'partnerships' with this aircraft have compromised the design and certification integrity.
With the FAA extremely slow to respond, cut the 'partnership' line Mr Muilenburg and let the investigators investigate.
With the greatest of respect to the many hardworking employees and engineers this corporate is infected.
Mr Muilenburg, it could well have 'happened again'.
Don't worry though Dennis, your lobbyists are working the phones in Washington, you know the guys who used to work for the public service including the FAA.
Last edited by Rated De; 13th Mar 2019 at 21:07.
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FYI on U.S. Political system
As chief executive, the President of the U.S. does have the statutory authority to order the FAA to ground any plane he wishes. Without good cause, it could be viewed as an abuse of his power and overruled by courts but that would take time. However, in this case, he could probably get away with it in the 'public interest' no matter what the 'experts' at the FAA (Boeing) think.
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It appears that a WestJet 8 MAX is one of the first to get a ferry back to base permit. C-GDDR was scheduled to operate WS1229 MCO-YYZ this afternoon.
Instead it seems to be ferrying MCO-YVR (or -BFI for a refund?) after departing about 20Z:
Instead it seems to be ferrying MCO-YVR (or -BFI for a refund?) after departing about 20Z:
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FAA needs to require Boeing to remove this "speed bump." That some alert and competent pilots are able to overcome it is wonderful, but still an insufficient level of safety as attested to by hundreds of fatalities. If it turns out that AoA sense system failures are the root cause of the MCAS behavior, then the AoA sensor system needs to be made more reliable (higher integrity), in keeping with potential catastrophic failures.
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BEA will probably analyze flight recorders: (from their twitter account @BEA_Aero) :
⚠️���� 03/10 accident to the #Boeing737Max @BoeingAirplanes ET-AVJ operated by @flyethiopian / Ethiopian authorities have requested @BEA_Aero assistance for the analysis of FDR & CVR / Any communication on the investigation progress is the responsibility of those authorities.
⚠️���� 03/10 accident to the #Boeing737Max @BoeingAirplanes ET-AVJ operated by @flyethiopian / Ethiopian authorities have requested @BEA_Aero assistance for the analysis of FDR & CVR / Any communication on the investigation progress is the responsibility of those authorities.
