Ethiopian airliner down in Africa
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just had the painfull experience to listen to "aviation expert " on Canadian cbc tv. Where do they find these idiots. CNN is no better. Check out the female ex FAA director. She can't spell plane let alone give any info. These idiots probably get good bucks for this bs
rant over feel a little better.
Operators of the max are experiencing a nightmare as is boeing
rant over feel a little better.
Operators of the max are experiencing a nightmare as is boeing
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Some eyewitness reports in this Reuters article:
The pilot had requested permission to return, saying he was having problems - but it was too late.
Half a dozen witnesses interviewed by Reuters in the farmland where the plane came down reported smoke billowing out behind, while four of them also described a loud sound.
“It was a loud rattling sound. Like straining and shaking metal,” said Turn Buzuna, a 26-year-old housewife and farmer who lives about 300 meters (328 yards) from the crash site.
“Everyone says they have never heard that kind of sound from a plane and they are under a flight path,” she added.
Malka Galato, 47, a barley and wheat farmer whose field the plane crashed in, also described smoke and sparks from the back. “The plane was very close to the ground and it made a turn... Cows that were grazing in the fields ran in panic,” he said.
Tamirat Abera, 25, was walking past the field at the time. He said the plane turned sharply, trailing white smoke and items like clothes and papers, then crashed about 300 meters away.
“It tried to climb but it failed and went down nose first,” he said. “There was fire and white smoke which then turned black.”
“When it was hovering, fire was following its tail, then it tried to lift its nose,” said another witness, Gadisa Benti. “When it passed over our house, the nose pointed down and the tail raised up. It went straight to the ground with its nose, it then exploded.”
GARA-BOKKA, Ethiopia (Reuters) - The Ethiopian Airlines plane that crashed killing 157 people was making a strange rattling noise and trailed smoke and debris as it swerved above a field of panicked cows before hitting earth, according to witnesses.Flight 302 took off from the Ethiopian capital on Sunday morning bound for Nairobi with passengers from more than 30 countries. All on board the Boeing 737 MAX 8 died.
The pilot had requested permission to return, saying he was having problems - but it was too late.
Half a dozen witnesses interviewed by Reuters in the farmland where the plane came down reported smoke billowing out behind, while four of them also described a loud sound.
“It was a loud rattling sound. Like straining and shaking metal,” said Turn Buzuna, a 26-year-old housewife and farmer who lives about 300 meters (328 yards) from the crash site.
“Everyone says they have never heard that kind of sound from a plane and they are under a flight path,” she added.
Malka Galato, 47, a barley and wheat farmer whose field the plane crashed in, also described smoke and sparks from the back. “The plane was very close to the ground and it made a turn... Cows that were grazing in the fields ran in panic,” he said.
Tamirat Abera, 25, was walking past the field at the time. He said the plane turned sharply, trailing white smoke and items like clothes and papers, then crashed about 300 meters away.
“It tried to climb but it failed and went down nose first,” he said. “There was fire and white smoke which then turned black.”
“When it was hovering, fire was following its tail, then it tried to lift its nose,” said another witness, Gadisa Benti. “When it passed over our house, the nose pointed down and the tail raised up. It went straight to the ground with its nose, it then exploded.”
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Some rough working assumptions (probably overly optimistic):
350 aircraft
In service for 2 years, each aircraft available 340 days/yr, 5 sectors/day.
Total number of departures: approx 1.2m giving a fatal accident rate of 1.67 per million flights.
In comparison using figures up to 2017:
Banderantie - 3.07. (Ouch!)
Concorde - 11.36 (indicative of very low numbers in service and utilisation)
F28 - 1.65
A310 - 1.34
B747 (early models) 1.02
B747 (-400 onwards) - 0.06
B737 (all models) - 0.28
A320 series - 0.11
350 aircraft
In service for 2 years, each aircraft available 340 days/yr, 5 sectors/day.
Total number of departures: approx 1.2m giving a fatal accident rate of 1.67 per million flights.
In comparison using figures up to 2017:
Banderantie - 3.07. (Ouch!)
Concorde - 11.36 (indicative of very low numbers in service and utilisation)
F28 - 1.65
A310 - 1.34
B747 (early models) 1.02
B747 (-400 onwards) - 0.06
B737 (all models) - 0.28
A320 series - 0.11
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Its the same drill for the classic, NG and MAX.
10 degrees/80% with flap extended, 4 degrees/75% clean. At low altitudes you climb and at high levels descend slightly, but at any altitude the aircraft is under control whilst the PM reads the QRH, asks ATC for a block of altitudes to work in, and then gets the accurate thrust settings and pitch attitudes you need from the performance in flight section of the QRH.
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Ref: incompleteness posting #405
Article quotes eyewitnesses....”Half a dozen witnesses interviewed by Reuters in the farmland where the plane came down reported smoke billowing out behind, while four of them also described a loud sound. “
Source: reuters.com
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKBN1QS1LJ
Article quotes eyewitnesses....”Half a dozen witnesses interviewed by Reuters in the farmland where the plane came down reported smoke billowing out behind, while four of them also described a loud sound. “
Source: reuters.com
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKBN1QS1LJ
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Royal Air Maroc has grounded its entire fleet of Max8's - One.
Rolling news crawler here:
https://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Hot+Topics/Boeing+737+Max
Rolling news crawler here:
https://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Hot+Topics/Boeing+737+Max
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Originally Posted by arketip 
There is quite a difference between a trim runaway and what seems to happen here.
How do you recognise a trim runaway?
to be fair to Arketip (who probably flies something else) on several airplanes it is much harder to detect then on a B737. Not many aircraft have the 1950’s big and noisy trim wheel in the cockpit. Most just have a tiny green (and silent) indicator outside your scan.
No idea how it is on the 737 Max
There is quite a difference between a trim runaway and what seems to happen here.
How do you recognise a trim runaway?
to be fair to Arketip (who probably flies something else) on several airplanes it is much harder to detect then on a B737. Not many aircraft have the 1950’s big and noisy trim wheel in the cockpit. Most just have a tiny green (and silent) indicator outside your scan.
No idea how it is on the 737 Max
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I’d be interested to know of the QA plan, most obviously failure modes, and how it was executed and signed off.
The noise you hear is A** covers slamming closed...
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Yes. The scheme is, on any vertical surface (like the instrument panel, or a wall) up = on, same as any switch in the rest of the world. On any horizontal surface (center pedestal, or overhead) forward = on. For the center pedestal, the forward = on scheme elegantly matches what you're used to (toward the top of your eyeball = on). But I've always thought that that's a stupid application on the overhead, which gives the feeling of upside down switches since it reverses the "toward the top/bottom of your eyeball" relationship, and instead it should just be treated like a wall.
And the 737 seems to have very few switches in places that aren't the overhead, so the overhead upside-down scheme prevails. But the stab cut out switches are on a place where the normal (up = on) scheme is in place.
And the 737 seems to have very few switches in places that aren't the overhead, so the overhead upside-down scheme prevails. But the stab cut out switches are on a place where the normal (up = on) scheme is in place.
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If those reports are half accurate,severe big bird strikes rendering engines and some control surfaces inoperable coupled with a relatively inexperienced crew not being able to manage the sudden crisis ?
**This comment is an assessment based solely on assuming the eyewitness reports were accurate.
If it's true that the MCAS only becomes active after flap retraction then I doubt it was involved in this instance. Acceleration (and thus flap retraction) doesn't happen until at least 1500' AGL, and it looks like this flight never even attained that height.
That is only based on the ADS B data online which may be inaccurate so only time will tell.
That is only based on the ADS B data online which may be inaccurate so only time will tell.
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on a guarded switch the switch movement is the same as the guard movement. It is very natural.
The stabtrim cutout switches are no cause for concern.
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If those reports are half accurate,severe big bird strikes rendering engines and some control surfaces inoperable coupled with a relatively inexperienced crew not being able to manage the sudden crisis ?
**This comment is an assessment based solely on assuming the eyewitness reports were accurate.
**This comment is an assessment based solely on assuming the eyewitness reports were accurate.
As you say, eyewitnesses can be unreliable.
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High angle of attack
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According to the Reuters report 4 witnesses were specific to sound which is historically much more accurate and telling than sight. Not with regard to specifics but abnormality. It's common for individuals to do a "double take" specific to visual clues since you tend to need to
process and double check an anomaly but we respond much more decisively to aural clues.
process and double check an anomaly but we respond much more decisively to aural clues.
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I'm not surprised by the Chinese reaction. The US government is currently almost at war with Huawei who not only make phones, but in a far larger scale a lot of the technology used by Mobile Operators at base stations and in their data centres. The US has had their CFO arrested in Canada, and is trying to extradite her to the US, and leaning hard on their allies to restrict use of their technology.
The opportunity to put restrictions in a semi-legitimate and public way against a major US company I am sure did not pass the Chinese government by.
The opportunity to put restrictions in a semi-legitimate and public way against a major US company I am sure did not pass the Chinese government by.