Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Ethiopian airliner down in Africa

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Ethiopian airliner down in Africa

Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:03
  #1181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Earth
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Too many pages to read to see if this has been asked before but what happens to the crews that work on these planes that have been grounded? Leave without Pay? Standby Pay? I believe I heard the entire global fleet of 371 planes has now been grounded. That is a lot of affected crews and their families.
4EvahLearning is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:05
  #1182 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Spain and Gibraltar
Posts: 155
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Reactivation

With all of these aircraft now grounded, The Mojave Air and Space Port may see a lot of movement in the coming days?
Nil by mouth is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:06
  #1183 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Airbubba
It appears that a WestJet 8 MAX is one of the first to get a ferry back to base permit. C-GDDR was scheduled to operate WS1229 MCO-YYZ this afternoon.

Instead it seems to be ferrying MCO-YVR (or -BFI for a refund?) after departing about 20Z:


That would require a very fast reaction time by the FAA.
Longtimer is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:07
  #1184 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by LookingForAJob
CNN just reported that FAA based decision on 'black box data' that showed similarities to the Lion Air accident.
Have the ET302 'black boxes' been reviewed on site or is this just more fake news? Supposedly the Germans said they didn't have the software to read the recorders and the Ethiopians said did they not have the equipment.
Airbubba is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:11
  #1185 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Near sheep!
Posts: 915
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 4EvahLearning
Too many pages to read to see if this has been asked before but what happens to the crews that work on these planes that have been grounded? Leave without Pay? Standby Pay? I believe I heard the entire global fleet of 371 planes has now been grounded. That is a lot of affected crews and their families.
They'll fly NG instead.
WindSheer is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:12
  #1186 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by procede
They probably confirmed that the aircraft has had to come down in a near vertical nose down attitude, similar to the Lion air case.
Surely that was obvious from the first photos of the crash site on day one; the very limited debris field and massive disintegration of the fuselage made it obvious that the a/c hit the ground at not far off 90 degrees to the perpendicular, at high speed considerably in excess of terminal velocity.

There's possibly some other preliminary data and/or information we're not aware of (yet)? Or perhaps it's what they haven't found at the crash site - eg no sign of other causes?

RTM Boy is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:12
  #1187 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In light of the 737 MAX gounding what happens to those pilots who are type rated on only the 737 MAX models?
Nobody knows how long the grounding will last so when does an airline start to make provisions for pilots to get flying again?

Edit: Just seen the question has already been asked but the answer was they’ll fly the NG instead.
I assume then a type rating on the MAX is good for the NG too?
Surely the NG will be fully crewed and therefore bringing MAX crew over will just impact the NG crew who’ve done nothing wrong.
Magpie32 is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:14
  #1188 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: upper hemisphere
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So what exactly is the problem with the MAX here? Surely, a faulty MCAS design can't be the main reason for the grounding? Did Boeing redesign the alpha vanes/pitot tubes on the max? The erroneous speed readings seem to me to be the main villain in this drama.
LeftHeadingNorth is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:15
  #1189 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Longtimer
That would require a very fast reaction time by the FAA.
Or, maybe they didn't get the message about the grounding.

In years past I've had a Part 91 ferry permit faxed to me within an hour after an aircraft technical problem. In this case they would also need permission from Transport Canada I would think.

Whatever the case, this Canadian MAX 8 has taken off during the grounding.

WJ8982 is also now airborne TPA-YYZ.
Airbubba is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:19
  #1190 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Earth
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by WindSheer
They'll fly NG instead.
that's a lot of people to fit into a roster. I'm guessing if anybody has been complaining they can't take leave, then they will have the ability to take it now. Might be a win for some. Here's hoping not too much stress is caused for all affected.
4EvahLearning is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:22
  #1191 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,808
Received 199 Likes on 92 Posts
Originally Posted by Airbubba
Have the ET302 'black boxes' been reviewed on site or is this just more fake news?
Neither. It's a reference to ADS-B data captured by the Aireon satellite network.

DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:26
  #1192 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NY
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cynar
yeah, what's this new evidence? what do we know today that we didn't know Monday?
They probably just now realized that there are many scenarios the MCAS Engineers didn't think of.... Airbus went through this "oh F***" learning curve...
-or-
Trump rightfully forced their hand, of which, wasn't acting, as the solution will cost $ Billions....
diclemeg is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:28
  #1193 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Currently the Max-9 has (4) in flight. The Max-8 has (46) in flight.
FanControl is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:34
  #1194 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Under the radar, over the rainbow
Posts: 788
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by LeftHeadingNorth
So what exactly is the problem with the MAX here? Surely, a faulty MCAS design can't be the main reason for the grounding? Did Boeing redesign the alpha vanes/pitot tubes on the max? The erroneous speed readings seem to me to be the main villain in this drama.
It seems likely that a faulty MCAS design could be the main reason for the grounding, if such faulty design were believed, based upon evidence, to be a major factor in two hull losses, and the loss of all souls on board, in a few months, on new aircraft. And, if the evidence did not, yet, point to a specific set of causes, the similarities between the two accidents are, by themselves, sufficient to ground the type pending further investigation and analysis.
OldnGrounded is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:37
  #1195 (permalink)  
bnt
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland. (No, I just live here.)
Posts: 732
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Here's a link to the FAA's Emergency Order. At the bottom of page 3 and on to page 4, they state that: "the investigation of the ET302 crash developed new information from the wreckage concerning the aircraft's configuration just after takeoff that, taken together with newly refined data from satellite-based tracking of the aircraft's flight path, indicates some similarities between the ET302 and JT610 accidents that warrant further investigaton of the possibility of a shared cause for the two incidents that needs to be better understood and addressed".

bnt is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:38
  #1196 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southern Maryland
Age: 56
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RTM Boy
Surely that was obvious from the first photos of the crash site on day one; the very limited debris field and massive disintegration of the fuselage made it obvious that the a/c hit the ground at not far off 90 degrees to the perpendicular, at high speed considerably in excess of terminal velocity.
I don't find that at all "obvious." High speed? Probably. Vertical? Hardly.

Consider this photograph of the crash site - the only one I found that was taken from above ground level. I don't have enough points yet to post the image or a link to it, but you could find it here:
i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/03/12/00/10838788-6794233-Pictures_have_emerged_showing_the_scale_of_the_crash_site_fr om_a-a-14_1552350488610.jpg
(from a Daily Mail article about the crash).

It clearly shows a sharply defined impact hole, but with a sizable trail of small debris for hundreds of yards to the lower right side, indicating a considerable forward velocity. Also, the hole is NOT at all circular - it's much wider to the lower right side.

Also, although it's pedantic, I don't think "terminal velocity" is the right term here. Terminal velocity refers to a freely falling body - which an airplane under thrust is most definitely NOT. "High speed" is appropriate. Perhaps you meant "higher than limit speed" for a 737?

But even then, I don't think you can infer much about absolute speed from the photograph. Crashing an airliner into soft earth (which it appears from the multitudes of ground-level photos) will result in a large crater, no matter the impact speed. I would surmise that anything above a couple hundred knots would produce a similar crater, and similarly small bits of leftover debris.
BrandonSoMD is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:41
  #1197 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida and wherever my laptop is
Posts: 1,350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Neither. It's a reference to ADS-B data captured by the Aireon satellite network.
The amount of information broadcast continually by ADS-B Extended Squitter is significant aircraft state, vertical and turn rates, FMC settings lots of information. In a relatively sparse area the discrimination of one aircraft's broadcasts would be relatively simple by Aireon (a hosted payload on Iridium Next satellites)
Ian W is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:46
  #1198 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Belgium
Age: 64
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The sensors that are killing people.

The most fragile things in the whole system are the sensors that are always exposed to the outside world.
In most cases, it is a sensor breaking up, or feeding wrong information to the pilots/systems.We absolutely need more and better quality control (and back-up's) for the sensors.
Static, dynamic, AOA, all of them.
Vilters is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:46
  #1199 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post



Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
That makes no sense. WTF is a "B738 MAX" ?
They saw your post and made another update:



Last edited by Airbubba; 13th Mar 2019 at 22:49.
Airbubba is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2019, 21:55
  #1200 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: MOW
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Magpie32
In light of the 737 MAX gounding what happens to those pilots who are type rated on only the 737 MAX models?
Surely the NG will be fully crewed and therefore bringing MAX crew over will just impact the NG crew who’ve done nothing wrong.
The diff bw NG and MAX is close to one powerpoint presentation and three hrs ground study time. So they can operate either type.
The total amt of airline flights is likely to drop as well as profits. So less money for everyone unless they sue Boeing and win the case, which would bring more bonuses to lawyers and execs, not to workhorses.

jantar99 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.