Ethiopian airliner down in Africa
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Several more airlines pull the 737 Max after the 2nd crash in Ethiopia.
Royal Air Maroc RAM, and now BA RSA franchise Comair.
whio would make he Comair decision
Oldoberon
Royal Air Maroc RAM, and now BA RSA franchise Comair.
whio would make he Comair decision
Oldoberon
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Sorry, after 30 years it is hard not to speak in allcaps three letter words, here is the English version:
Every 737 has 2 Angle Of Attack indicators, and a warning light for a difference in value between the two. SW have paid extra to display the actual AOA value displayed on the respective pilots instruments. The left pilot seas AOA one, the right pilot sees AOA 2 values. These should be the same, and if they are not seeing the value could help in deciding who is right.
Every 737 has 2 Angle Of Attack indicators, and a warning light for a difference in value between the two. SW have paid extra to display the actual AOA value displayed on the respective pilots instruments. The left pilot seas AOA one, the right pilot sees AOA 2 values. These should be the same, and if they are not seeing the value could help in deciding who is right.
https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-s...737-max-fleet/
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I haven’t flown a plane as PIC since 1994, but I’m pretty systems automation and computer savvy. Reading the above posts I get the feeling that hardly anyone understands how MCAS really works, not even its designers. It reminds me of the financial crisis a decade ago when the so-called professionals ultimately didn’t understand what they created.
Pages of debate on both this and the Lion Air threads about how the thing actually behaves should be a big red flag, regardless of the actual cause of these accidents.
Pages of debate on both this and the Lion Air threads about how the thing actually behaves should be a big red flag, regardless of the actual cause of these accidents.
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Not airframer's
Phylosocopter, the diagram is marked with Ostrower's trademark. It's 98.9 percent clear that it is something Jon created to explain somewhat arcane and technical flight control systems to an essentially layman readership (for his publication "The Air Current"). Not carrying water for Jon here but -- Boeing has enough of headaches at the moment, without even a "rumour" that gives forum folks the "EEEKs."
WillowRun 6-3
WillowRun 6-3
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re post 521 . . .
Ask the author where he got the data and MIS info on MCAS- re override by pilot
https://theaircurrent.com/author/jonostrower/
Ask the author where he got the data and MIS info on MCAS- re override by pilot
https://theaircurrent.com/author/jonostrower/
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Common sense and basic principles of human engineering dictate that a system or application that creates this much uncertainty and confusion, even among experts in a discipline, is begging for redesign.
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". . . begging for redesign" [OldnGrounded]
Seems a prudent conclusion - based on present state of actual information and reasonable inferences.
But there's another design redo flopping onto agendas, isn't there? The certification process itself. Maybe the lithium-ion batteries were a vague straw in the wind, albeit not stretching out an older type design as such. Clearly the MCAS situation - even if this accident doesn't turn out to be rooted in MCAS - is a strong indicator. As others have stated here and on Lion Air 610 thread, the process being set-up and administered so that mods can be added, to a basic type that is decades old, with this result, should not be allowed to persist. I won't even try to sketch a new and improved architecture for the FARs and the industry-regulator collaboration arrangement, even if I could, but isn't this work coming into necessity?
WillowRun 6-3
Seems a prudent conclusion - based on present state of actual information and reasonable inferences.
But there's another design redo flopping onto agendas, isn't there? The certification process itself. Maybe the lithium-ion batteries were a vague straw in the wind, albeit not stretching out an older type design as such. Clearly the MCAS situation - even if this accident doesn't turn out to be rooted in MCAS - is a strong indicator. As others have stated here and on Lion Air 610 thread, the process being set-up and administered so that mods can be added, to a basic type that is decades old, with this result, should not be allowed to persist. I won't even try to sketch a new and improved architecture for the FARs and the industry-regulator collaboration arrangement, even if I could, but isn't this work coming into necessity?
WillowRun 6-3
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Boeing to upgrade software in 737 MAX 8 fleet in 'weeks'
Just wow... Begs the question, how long have they known about the issues???
Was the aircraft pushed out too early to "meet schedule" and increase profit?
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The FAA Has No Current Plans to Ground Boeing’s 737 MAX After Deadly Crash
Agency to mandate software fix by end of April
from WSJ behind paywall
The Federal Aviation Administration said Monday it doesn’t plan to ground Boeing Co.’s BA -5.33% 737 MAX planes, despite concerns by other countries, passengers and airline employees after the model’s second crash in less than five months.
But yet they grounded 787 worldwide for two battery fires with no deatchs or injuries ..
Now that A covers are in place - we ill follow SOP and carefully avoid pointing fingers at ???
Agency to mandate software fix by end of April
from WSJ behind paywall
By
Updated March 11, 2019 8:35 p.m. ETRobert Wall,Andrew Tangel andAndy Pasztor
The Federal Aviation Administration said Monday it doesn’t plan to ground Boeing Co.’s BA -5.33% 737 MAX planes, despite concerns by other countries, passengers and airline employees after the model’s second crash in less than five months.
Now that A covers are in place - we ill follow SOP and carefully avoid pointing fingers at ???
Last edited by CONSO; 12th Mar 2019 at 02:28.
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lancs said " From the Lion Air thread, I believe MCAS cycles between the 2 AOAs between each flight..""..
If the system uses 1 &2 on alternate flights both are wired in, I would think it is relatively simple to put a 1-2 switch in the cockpit but it is only active when the red light / HUD shows there is a difference, that could possibly immediately allow crew to rectify problem
Oldoberon
If the system uses 1 &2 on alternate flights both are wired in, I would think it is relatively simple to put a 1-2 switch in the cockpit but it is only active when the red light / HUD shows there is a difference, that could possibly immediately allow crew to rectify problem
Oldoberon
Switch direction.
I recently transitioned to an Airbus from an old British machine. It wasn’t until some months into flying the bus that I realised the switch directions were opposite to what I was supposedly used to. You see, what I’d been doing is this, if I knew something was off and I wanted to turn it on, I would locate the appropriate switch and move it to its other position. I would then check that what was once off was now on and I would carry on. I do something similar with light switches in a room, if the lights are off, I locate a light switch and move it to its opposite position, I then check that the lights have come on. If they haven’t, I look for another light switch and repeat the procedure 
.
I find it very hard to believe that someone could be confused by switch direction. If the trims need to be cutout, you lift the guard and move the switch. Right? You don’t lift the guard, observe the switch in a particular position, mistake that position for OFF, and then assume that somehow the switch was already off! Talk about overthinking.
.I find it very hard to believe that someone could be confused by switch direction. If the trims need to be cutout, you lift the guard and move the switch. Right? You don’t lift the guard, observe the switch in a particular position, mistake that position for OFF, and then assume that somehow the switch was already off! Talk about overthinking.
lancs said " From the Lion Air thread, I believe MCAS cycles between the 2 AOAs between each flight..""..
If the system uses 1 &2 on alternate flights both are wired in, I would think it is relatively simple to put a 1-2 switch in the cockpit but it is only active when the red light / HUD shows there is a difference, that could possibly immediately allow crew to rectify problem
Oldoberon
If the system uses 1 &2 on alternate flights both are wired in, I would think it is relatively simple to put a 1-2 switch in the cockpit but it is only active when the red light / HUD shows there is a difference, that could possibly immediately allow crew to rectify problem
Oldoberon
In Boeing's Nov 6 2018 (FAA as of that date unapproved) bulletin, p. 25, Skyjob's post#496, no mention is made anywhere by Boeing of MCAS.
In Post #511, the clear graphic from Air Current states that MCAS activates when 'steeply turning'.
In Post #511, the clear graphic from Air Current states that MCAS activates when 'steeply turning'.
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lancs said " From the Lion Air thread, I believe MCAS cycles between the 2 AOAs between each flight..""..
If the system uses 1 &2 on alternate flights both are wired in, I would think it is relatively simple to put a 1-2 switch in the cockpit but it is only active when the red light / HUD shows there is a difference, that could possibly immediately allow crew to rectify problem
If the system uses 1 &2 on alternate flights both are wired in, I would think it is relatively simple to put a 1-2 switch in the cockpit but it is only active when the red light / HUD shows there is a difference, that could possibly immediately allow crew to rectify problem
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MCAS activates automatically when all of the following conditions are met:
High angle of attack ( could be high bank angle for example ) Autopilot disengaged Flaps are up