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BAW492 diversion at Gibraltar

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BAW492 diversion at Gibraltar

Old 25th Feb 2019, 19:43
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Looking at the on-board clip, I have been on worse landing at NCE. It was sea-sky-sea-sky out the window. Pilot claimed it was wind off the Alps. I've never heard so many people vomiting. However at no time did I feel at risk.

From outside it looks worse!
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Old 25th Feb 2019, 19:58
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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The roll rate appeared to be proportional to the visible control surface deflection. In other words, the roll appeared to be commanded, rather than inflicted upon the aircraft from say rotor, as has been suggested, which would be countered by the opposite movement of the control surface from that seen. It would be interesting to learn whether it was intentionally or unintentionally commanded.

Either case would require some explaining, now that this is published for everyone to see, with both inside and outside views confirming the roll commands and the associated quite obvious effects on the aircraft. It seems highly unlikely that it would be commanded by the autopilot.
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Old 25th Feb 2019, 20:01
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Banana4321 View Post
Looking at the on-board clip, I have been on worse landing at NCE. It was sea-sky-sea-sky out the window. Pilot claimed it was wind off the Alps. I've never heard so many people vomiting. However at no time did I feel at risk.

From outside it looks worse!
Was only a short clip. Gibraltar is unique with that lump Rock, in such close proximity to the runway. Seen many a scarey looking landing and some very ropey aborted approaches. But like you say most seem worse outside than they are inside.
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Old 25th Feb 2019, 20:06
  #24 (permalink)  
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Longer clip here, seem to be quite a few cycles.

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Old 25th Feb 2019, 20:18
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post
Longer clip here, seem to be quite a few cycles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78ZDaQ0UYZg
I take it all back, this experience was worse!
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Old 25th Feb 2019, 20:29
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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It’s been a bit windy in Gibraltar lately, but the wind has been from the east, pretty much straigh down the runway.
I have never flown there, but I find it strange if that wind direction will create rotors?
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Old 25th Feb 2019, 21:07
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Rotors was my initial suggestion based on altitude wind ( not surface wind), temp/lapse rate and pressure. Now I’m not so convinced. The latest video is somewhat alarming but the problem rectified itself as altitude gained and when abeam the rock, so it could still be a factor. Now I’m thinking some form of FCC error. Worrying .

Last edited by autothrottle; 25th Feb 2019 at 21:26.
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Old 25th Feb 2019, 21:16
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post
Longer clip here, seem to be quite a few cycles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78ZDaQ0UYZg
OK, I take it back. This aircraft needs to be grounded ASAP, G-EUUY. Already back in LHR I see..

Could easily be a feedback sensor loop problem causing to aircraft to overshoot on roll. Needs to be investigated ASAP.


That guy’s uneasy “hehehe” laughter will haunt me tonight.. Pretty sure most people thought it was game over after the first two rolls.
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Old 25th Feb 2019, 21:29
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CAP A330 View Post


OK, I take it back. This aircraft needs to be grounded ASAP, G-EUUY. Already back in LHR I see..

Could easily be a feedback sensor loop problem causing to aircraft to overshoot on roll. Needs to be investigated ASAP.


That guy’s uneasy “hehehe” laughter will haunt me tonight.. Pretty sure most people thought it was game over after the first two rolls.
yes....I agree. Normal passengers would gather that rapid , excessive roll cycles is not normal. A few relieved people tonight.
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Old 25th Feb 2019, 22:47
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Any information on the flight that approached just before or after the incident in question?
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Old 25th Feb 2019, 23:35
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CAP A330 View Post
This aircraft needs to be grounded ASAP, G-EUUY. Already back in LHR I see..
I quite agree with the first bit and am rather alarmed at learning the second bit. Someone actually thought this airframe was safe to take to the skies after that?!?
What struck me (from the footage [interior, stbd]) was how quickly the oscillation stopped. Almost as if the guilty logic was taken out of the pipeline and the aircraft returned to doing what it was designed to do with immediate effect.
I'm quite convinced that this had nothing to do with rotor or pilot input. I could be wrong.
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Old 26th Feb 2019, 00:03
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by autothrottle View Post

yes....I agree. Normal passengers would gather that rapid , excessive roll cycles is not normal. A few relieved people tonight.
Interesting because it seemed like the "hehehe" guy called going around (0:04) before the roll cycles started, almost like he was anticipating it. Makes me wonder if there weren't some effects before the video started.
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Old 26th Feb 2019, 00:07
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Just to add to my post#13 this does show the limited airspace allowed by Spain to aircraft using GIB airport Air restrictions imposed by Spain
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Old 26th Feb 2019, 01:46
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Does one expect the CVR and FDR to be preserved at this time after such an event?
I certainly hope so!
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Old 26th Feb 2019, 03:13
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Could not the explanation be simply that one of the pilots decided to wag the wings from side to side for the hell of it, possibly thinking that the turbulence from the rock would cover their tracks? It must get rather boring flying to the rules - even pilots want to have a bit of fun once in a while..
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Old 26th Feb 2019, 03:23
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Practicing Dutch Rolls with a full plane of passengers?
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Old 26th Feb 2019, 03:36
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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.........or it could be PIO at a pretty advanced stage. From the video, that is not rotor/ turbulence induced, it continues far higher than any rotor effects coming off the rock would produce.
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Old 26th Feb 2019, 04:23
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Rotor

Looks to be rotor induced, look at the ragged, torn little clouds in the opening shot. The rotor doesn't have to come off the rock, plenty of ridges out there. The go around was a hot mess, was it on auto or PIO? Anyway, I'm sure some PAX became reacquainted with Jesus.
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Old 26th Feb 2019, 05:14
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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After looking at the longer passenger footage, it looks to me like it’s the old ‘roll inconsistency in config full’ with “wind peturbation” (or whatever similar quaint phrase Airbus used to use) rearing its ugly head again.

I say this because the flaps appear set in the FULL position at the start of the footage. Immediately the roll oscillations stop, you can see that the flaps are in a lower config. Shortly after, the chime of gear retraction can be heard.

So I’m guessing that they got a windshear (coincident with the first jolt in the video), then commenced the windshear escape, all the while maintaining the current config.

Once out of the shear and on the “go around, flaps” actions, the FCCs resumed their normal behavior.

Just my two cents worth.
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Old 26th Feb 2019, 05:58
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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And the winner is.... RAD_ALT_ALIVE.

From an inside BA source, that's what happened.
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