Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Atlas Air 767 down/Texas

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Atlas Air 767 down/Texas

Old 24th Feb 2019, 04:37
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 26
Weather situation looked challenging and will probably be found to be major contributor. Cold front with sharp wind shift reported at both Houston-Pearland and Galveston around time of incident. Above this low-level wind shift, strong low level jet from SW. Likely some severe turbulence and erratic winds in vicinity of sharp right turn made when left turn denied. Reports of "good weather" in area also credible as these conditions confined to immediate vicinity of the cold front and radar echoes. A few miles either side partly cloudy and warm, not overly windy at surface. Could even be a lightning strike on the fuselage contributing to this unfortunate outcome.
TRW Plus is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 04:50
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Where The Widget Flies
Age: 31
Posts: 11
I distinctly hear the sound of the word "Pull" from the GPWS system, and I think I hear the stick shaker going off too at 2:33 of the video

I took the snippet and slowed it down quite a bit, and repeated the bits. I have also separated the "OK" from the noise that proceeds it. You can clearly hear the lack of background noise on the OK portion, and then what sounds to me like the gpws "PULL" sound and maybe the stick shaker??!!


Last edited by alcan60283; 24th Feb 2019 at 13:17. Reason: added URL
alcan60283 is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 05:01
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: AKL
Age: 46
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by alcan60283 View Post
I distinctly hear the sound of the word "Pull" from the GPWS system, and I think I hear the stick shaker going off too at 2:33 of the video
Same here, I put the Bose noise cancelling headset on and turned them right up. You can here "pull' very faintly in the background instantly after the crew member says "OK". Could well be from an EGPWS.
Homebrew1 is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 05:41
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 14
I dont hear GPWS also the link arrival there is no way at that point he would be low enough for a GPWS right after he was calmly discussing going east or west with ATC.

Did anyone consider an explosion howsoever caused.
lpvapproach is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 05:59
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 138
Originally Posted by extreme P View Post
Has a Boeing windscreen ever been penetrated by a bird?
I didn't think birds could fly that high but apparently some can all the way up to normal cruising altitude for a commercial jet.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...flight_heights

Although personally I still feel this aircraft's age may have more to do with the sudden failure in question. I wonder if anyone has yet discovered the number of hours or cycles it had flown and/or any details of any previous accident damage repairs undertaken?
Capvermell is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 06:10
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 3.5 from TD
Posts: 979
Would be interesting to see the Flightradar24 tracks of aircraft on that same arrival, right before and right after Atlasí crash. When all the tracks are overlaid it could possibly rule out weather if the tracks match.

On the the other hand, if Atlasí track was very different than other aircraft deviating in the area immediately prior and after the crash, that could signal that they encountered quite different flight conditions than those other aircraft.
Sqwak7700 is online now  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 06:12
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Cape Town, ZA
Age: 57
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by Capvermell View Post
Although personally I still feel this aircraft's age may have more to do with the sudden failure in question. I wonder if anyone has yet discovered the number of hours or cycles it had flown and/or any details of any previous accident damage repairs undertaken?
Yes, its already on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Air_Flight_3591

According to FAA records, the airframe had accumulated more than 90,000 hours over 23,000 flights prior to its hull loss.
Edit: Not sure if this has been discussed/eliminated as a potential issue: Wikipedia and https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...pany-airplanes
In January 2014, the US Federal Aviation Administration issued a directive that ordered inspections of the elevators on more than 400 767s beginning in March 2014; the focus is on fasteners and other parts that can fail and cause the elevators to jam. The issue was first identified in 2000 and has been the subject of several Boeing service bulletins. The inspections and repairs are required to be completed within six years.

Last edited by GordonR_Cape; 27th Feb 2019 at 18:52. Reason: Forgot to post source link.
GordonR_Cape is online now  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 08:04
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,553
Originally Posted by alcan60283 View Post
I distinctly hear the sound of the word "Pull" from the GPWS system, and I think I hear the stick shaker going off too at 2:33 of the video

I took the snippet and slowed it down quite a bit, and repeated the bits. I have also separated the "OK" from the noise that proceeds it. You can clearly hear the lack of background noise on the OK portion, and then what sounds to me like the gpws "PULL" sound and maybe the clacker??!!

https://soundcloud.com/jcamp2112/atl...cording-slowed
what "clacker", it has an aural alarm..very distinctive
ironbutt57 is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 08:37
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Valencia, Spain
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by Hotel Tango View Post
I have to say that I find that a very strange statement to make at this point, even coming from a Canadair CL605 pilot.
I guess I went too far and gave the wrong wording. I ment to say something flight control issues. Apologies out there.
At 6000' cabin pressure is no longer an issue.
fdgolf is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 08:40
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Leeds
Posts: 161
Can hear something in the background of the "OK" transmission, it sounds like an automated voice, it does sound like PULL but it could just be a bit of confirmation bias
Livesinafield is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 08:55
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 938
As usual on the first day following a major crash, the speculation outruns the factual information. There are several more possible failure scenarios not yet mentioned here which could have caused this apparent loss of control. I thought of quite a few myself in the first moments after reading the first couple of news reports. But I see little point in sharing them until there's at least some factual basis, however small, upon which to build theories as to the sequence of events which led to this crash.

I'm not satisfied to simply "wait for the report" either. However these things often take a little time to develop into the basis for informed speculation. When time-synced, the ATC radar and com recordings will provide some early clues. Examination of recovered wreckage may also reveal investigative paths to be further pursued. Finding the CVR and FDR is going to be a high priority in the early stages for obvious reasons.Finding them In the mud beneath 5 feet of water may present some challenges, but it's been done before. (in the Everglades at least twice that I know of)

So fear not, in due course enough facts will emerge to facilitate informed speculation. Until then I have no basis to eliminate either any of my own or anyone else's pet theories. This is a normal circumstance.
westhawk is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 08:56
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 104
Boeing have built aircraft for a couple of years now, so I expect they have a clue on how long they last before problems set in.

I expect and the manufacturer that the "average" flight of a B767 to be much greater than 2 hours. So if the manufacture says 50,000 cycles (flights) is the limit, then we are talking way over 100,000 flight hours. But they are not concerned on hours - why are you?
Bend alot is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 09:24
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lost under the sea with HMS Turbulent
Posts: 2,115
Originally Posted by extreme P View Post
Has a Boeing windscreen ever been penetrated by a bird?
I am not aware of one.
The UK CAA put a restriction on maximum speeds at lower altitudes on the Boeing 757 aircraft due to a perceived weakness of the centre windshield pillar though. I do not believe it applied to the B767.
tubby linton is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 10:28
  #54 (permalink)  
bnt
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland. (No, I just live here.)
Posts: 712
Report from KHOU including eyewitness reports. They say the plane was low and then nosedived. The area where it crashed is shallow and muddy, with police working to ensure nothing is moved before the NTSB arrives today.

bnt is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 10:43
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uk
Age: 63
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by SliabhLuachra View Post
Forgive me, but am I hearing things at 2:33 here? Is there somebody shouting ''pull''?

https://youtu.be/rRirRCh3Xts
It is on the subtitles but all I hear is OK
Rory166 is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 10:46
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Zone of Alienation
Age: 74
Posts: 310
There is something there, no doubt. I think itís likely some ambient noise/comment rather than any kind of GPWS call-out. But it does, with a good set of cans on, sound quite similar to that played at normal speed.
FIRESYSOK is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 11:21
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 9,624
The FR24 data, as usual, contains numerous artifacts and synchronisation issues.

That said, once cleaned up it appears to show a slight but unmistakeable climb interrupting the descent just before reaching 6000', starting about 10 seconds before the beginning of the final dive.

It's exaggerated, obviously, in this foreshortened view (apologies for the skewed verticals):

DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 12:00
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Qwerty
Posts: 324
Originally Posted by tubby linton View Post
The UK CAA put a restriction on maximum speeds at lower altitudes on the Boeing 757 aircraft due to a perceived weakness of the centre windshield pillar though.
That restriction no longer applies.
Council Van is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 12:30
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 14

Last edited by T28B; 24th Feb 2019 at 16:34. Reason: link after review
lpvapproach is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2019, 12:39
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 35
Posts: 73
First fatal loss of a B767 on US soil since the 2001 NY events and worldwide since 2002.

Very lucky it didn't hit a mile out from the bay where the town is. RIP to the lost souls on board.
Bobman84 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.