Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

New AF/KLM CEO killing the one part of the company that makes money?

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

New AF/KLM CEO killing the one part of the company that makes money?

Old 15th Feb 2019, 14:23
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: next to sidestick
Posts: 481
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by sekmeth
Good point! But in recent years my company didnt strike. And its not that im against strikes. But it doesnt make sence to strike over a payrise while your company (not the holding) loses money.
i think you’ll find the strikes over wages were at a time when AF was actually making money. Both companies are profitable however the Dutch side enjoys a more business friendly environment.

A previous poster implied that only the Dutch side made efforts during the recession. Completely false - in fact it is quite the opposite. 10000 job losses in AF and near zero growth for many years (While KLM grew significantly)

The comments about the French being lazy etc are I must say unhelpful... cheap shots that lead nowhere imho.
ZBMAN is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 07:44
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: FR
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
IMO the #1 problem is not about "cultural differences"', but is a problem between the two persons. One of them seems to forever be the symbol of "AF and KL can never work closer together". I don't think AFKL can afford this situation. Elbers seems to have ended up in a very difficult spot. IMO at this point it does not matter how competent he is.
pax2908 is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 09:16
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,254
Received 329 Likes on 194 Posts
In my (non-airline) experience cross-cultural company marriages always underestimate the tribal loyalties (its bad enough when two companies in the same country merge TBH)

If everyone goes around still carrying a French or Netherlands flag tattooed on their metaphorical foreheads you'll get nowhere. You have to see it as an opportunity - and the best way is to mix up the workforce as fast as possible IMHO

Not very easy in rigid airline staffing structures
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 09:39
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Clarty Waters, UK
Age: 58
Posts: 949
Received 38 Likes on 22 Posts
Originally Posted by Asturias56
.....the best way is to mix up the workforce as fast as possible IMHO. Not very easy in rigid airline staffing structures
I guess that in those circumstances English would need to be the common language. I suspect that one part of the company would find that unacceptable.
Andy_S is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 12:46
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Andy_S
I guess that in those circumstances English would need to be the common language. I suspect that one part of the company would find that unacceptable.
which one?

just curious...
fab777 is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 15:37
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: US
Age: 66
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 4 Posts
Do you really have to ask? Hint, which country has their controllers speak in two different languages!
Sailvi767 is online now  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 16:02
  #27 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting not home
Age: 46
Posts: 4,302
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
As a group, the ATCOs in France wish for English RT in their airspace exactly the same as the visitors do.
FlightDetent is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 16:32
  #28 (permalink)  
Pegase Driver
 
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 73
Posts: 3,657
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Andy_S
I guess that in those circumstances English would need to be the common language. I suspect that one part of the company would find that unacceptable.
Not really, You are talking about the administrative language or the operational language ? Indeed for many countries, the administrative must be in the language where the airline is located by law . France and Spain for instance still have this rule. Not sure for the Netherlands , but last time I looked ( many moons ago I must admit). the KLM administrative papers were in Dutch... The Lufthansa admin is only in German by the way..
But making the operational language English poses no major problem anymore I would say especially since the pure domestic pilots are long gone and language proficiency tests are now mandatory..
Anyway , first there are ways around it , and secondly rules can always be changed... This is why I look at the Canadian ideas with some interest.. ( and by the way , in Canada they also use 2 languages on the frequency .. . )
ATC Watcher is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 16:57
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well, can't be too bothered about all this. The way that KLM is being treated now by AF is exactly the
same as KLM treated Martinair in the past. A good running carrier being completely plundered by
its parent company. Sounds familiar? Crying foul about this kind of practices by KLM employees is
hypocritical. The French just copied KLM's behaviour. Transavia is another victim by the way.

A small note about KLM's finances: its standalone revenue would never be as high without Air France's
booking system and network. Stand-alone they would be very small indeed.
Not James Bond is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 17:06
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Clarty Waters, UK
Age: 58
Posts: 949
Received 38 Likes on 22 Posts
Very fair comment ATC Watcher, as ever.

I was thinking of the operational language, but at every level of the company. This in response to the suggestion that to truly be a merged company, AF/KL should mix up the workforce. Maybe I'm being unfair, but the French government still have influence within Air France, and I imagine there would be some resistance to English being the operational language within a company seen as a French national champion?
Andy_S is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 17:33
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Sailvi767
Do you really have to ask? Hint, which country has their controllers speak in two different languages!
Canada maybe?
fab777 is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2019, 20:38
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Saigon SGN/VVTS
Posts: 6,625
Received 58 Likes on 42 Posts
This is why I look at the Canadian ideas with some interest.. ( and by the way , in Canada they also use 2 languages on the frequency .. . )
True, but only in Quebec.
India Four Two is online now  
Old 21st Feb 2019, 09:34
  #33 (permalink)  
Pegase Driver
 
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 73
Posts: 3,657
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Long articles in both le Monde and Figaro newspapers yesterday , looks like Ben has got all what he wanted . in exchange for renewing KLM CEO, he got effective control of KLM by creating a CEO governance that include KLM CEO and AF CEO, the group Financial Director and Ben as chairman. So the articles say Ben gets control over operations, routes, fleet acquisition and strategy for BOTH airlines.
As a (unrelated) bonus he signed a agreement with AF SNPL for a 4% increase ( they wanted 10) and some guarantee for the future of AF , effectively ending all SNPL industrial actions.
Not bad for an outsider ...
ATC Watcher is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2019, 14:19
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
Long articles in both le Monde and Figaro newspapers yesterday , looks like Ben has got all what he wanted . in exchange for renewing KLM CEO, he got effective control of KLM by creating a CEO governance that include KLM CEO and AF CEO, the group Financial Director and Ben as chairman. So the articles say Ben gets control over operations, routes, fleet acquisition and strategy for BOTH airlines.
As a (unrelated) bonus he signed a agreement with AF SNPL for a 4% increase ( they wanted 10) and some guarantee for the future of AF , effectively ending all SNPL industrial actions.
Not bad for an outsider ...
I think that the job of CEO must be made a lot easier when your company just reported an yearly operating profit of €1,300,000,000
Long Haul is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 20:44
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 724
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
The Netherlands government has just announced that they have acquired a 12,68% stake in AFKL. This stake will further increase to 14%, so that it will be as large as the French govt stake in the company.
The reason for this acquisition is apparently that the dutch interests in AFKL were not guaranteed, and to change this the shares were bought during last week.
fox niner is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2019, 10:01
  #36 (permalink)  
Aso
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Belgium
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Love it! Didn't see that one coming.. Fighting fire with fire
Aso is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2019, 16:31
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: FR
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It seems the Dutch acted, actually not for best AFKL interest, perhaps they thought in favour of KLM "alone", and it seems without much consideration for what happens in the long term. Another possibility, as somebody else said, is that this was briefed and "agreed on" with the French - at the moment I think this is unlikely.
pax2908 is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2019, 18:46
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Dutch increase stake in AF / KLM

BBC says:-
"France has reacted frostily to the Dutch government's sudden purchase of a 12.7% stake in Air France-KLM in attempt to counter French influence.

Shares in the airline company fell almost 11% after the Netherlands government said late on Tuesday it was acting to protect "Dutch interests".

The Dutch aim to match France's 14.3% stake in the airline.

French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire insisted the company should be "managed without national public interference".

According to French reports, the government in Paris was informed of the Dutch move only an hour before a press conference on Tuesday night, and after the shares had been bought.

A ministry source told AFP news agency the Dutch move was both "surprising" and "unfriendly", more in the manner of market traders than a state shareholder.

Meanwhile, French President Emmanuel Macron said the Dutch government should "clarify its intentions".

What the Dutch say

"Buying this stake ensures we have a seat at the table," Dutch Finance Minister Wopke Hoekstra said of the move, which cost about €680m (£583m; $774m).

The justification, he said, was to protect Dutch economic interests and jobs - particularly regarding Amsterdam's Schiphol airport. Schiphol is Europe's third busiest airport after London Heathrow and Paris Charles de Gaulle."
Phil Stunell is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2019, 19:21
  #39 (permalink)  
Pegase Driver
 
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 73
Posts: 3,657
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
this was briefed and "agreed on" with the French - at the moment I think this is unlikely.
It was definitively not agreed , French President Macron talked this evening about an hostile move while the Economy minister Le Maire talks about an unfriendly attack. which took everyone by surprise.
Anyway more State involvement is exactly what the new AF/KL CEO wanted to move away from in France , and now that the Dutch State jumped in , this is unlikely to happen . Result the AF share lost 11% today. Bravo !
ATC Watcher is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2019, 19:34
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: malta
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
It was definitively not agreed , French President Macron talked this evening about an hostile move while the Economy minister Le Maire talks about an unfriendly attack. which took everyone by surprise.
Anyway more State involvement is exactly what the new AF/KL CEO wanted to move away from in France , and now that the Dutch State jumped in , this is unlikely to happen .
Or the Dutch government realised after their meeting with Smith and the turmoil around the reappointment of Elbers that the French state still had a very large influence in the company, regardless of what Smith wants.
And with the French state not reducing their stake, the only option was to buy, if the Dutch wanted to, at least, neutralise the French influence.
Result the AF share lost 11% today. Bravo !
It only lost what it had gained in the previous 5 days, most likely a correction and nothing significantly more.
the_stranger is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.