EK15 Diverting to MAN from LGW

[Frequent_Flyer]

Any thoughts on this one?

You Tube

[Odins Raven]

MAN forecast for the 8th (yesterday) was a 10 knot gust straight down the runway.

Pretty sure LGW was forecast to be something like 210 degrees 29G42 wasn’t it??? That’s almost all crosswind component.

Therefore 2 wind shear go-arounds with the option of a diversion to a less windy ‘into-wind’ runway doesn’t sound all that stupid. Don’t know many skippers who’d act any differently. If the alternate was just as bad, then fair enough make a judgement call - but it clearly wasn’t the case!

[LookingForAJob]

Any thoughts on this one?

The aircraft did a go-around. Crew and other players did their job. Can't think of anything else.

[Frequent_Flyer]

Originally Posted by LookingForAJob

The aircraft did a go-around. Crew and other players did their job. Can't think of anything else.

...I mean why it took them so long to get off the ground and initiate the go-around? (Please note I am asking as cabin crew)

[wtsmg]

Originally Posted by Frequent_Flyer

...I mean why it took them so long to get off the ground and initiate the go-around? (Please note I am asking as cabin crew)

You don't really want to be doing the go around manoeuvre when you're at very low level, like in the video. There is an alternative procedure for this generally called a baulked landing.

In the A320 we set full thrust and pitch for about 10 degrees. easyJet used to call this 'TOGA 10'. Once safely away from the ground the Captain (who will be performing the TOGA 10) will call for the standard go around procedure which will be a stage of flaps retracted, confirmation of positive climb, and the gear retracted.

You don't really want to mess around with large bounces in a jet as there is a real risk of a tailstrike or nose wheel damage/heavy landing. It looks like the Captain went for a TOGA 10 after the first bounce. Unfortunately big turbofan jet engines take a few seconds to spool up to full thrust, it's not instantenous, which is why they sank again before finally being able to climb away.

[donpizmeov]

I believe Airbus removed the baulked landing procedure about 6yrs ago (or was it more?) . Missed approach procedure covers all, with notes that PF should be careful with rotation rate when close to the ground . And that PM monitor, and only move flap when speed, attitude, thrust and flight path are checked, and its safe to do so . This works well .
Toga 10 would appear to be an orange company procedure to be used instead of the above .

[mr Q]

PAR

Originally Posted by ShyTorque

I listened to the Hong Kong Approach frequency during a typhoon. One airliner, from the middle east, had gone around three times from runway 13 at Kai Tak. The eye of the typhoon passed right through Kowloon harbour and a runway change was carried out. The wind was gusting to 90 kts! By then it was possible to discern the increasing tension in the tone of the pilot's radio transmissions. He requested fuel priority and because the ILS for the reciprocal, runway 31 was taking a little time to come online, ATC offered him a PAR approach to runway 31.

The pilot was obviously confused by this and after a pause (presumably to confer with the captain) he declared that they didn't have any PAR equipment* fitted! Only at that stage did they decide to divert!

* For those who don't know, a PAR is a Precision Approach Radar letdown. No equipment is required to be fitted to any aircraft because the pilot just listens to continuous ATC glidepath and centreline information given during the descent and makes the appropriate left/right and descent corrections suggested.

I made a mental note not to fly with that airline...

Could not have been many Middle East airlines into Kai Tak in those days but fond memories of the 31 PAR
But ATC had a funny caveat saying “ for information only”or something similar which was a government phrase do avoid liability in the event of an accident
Many a crew thanked the controller fulsomely for the assistance upon landing such was its value and guidance thro the Lei Yi Mun Gap

[Frequent_Flyer]

Thank you wtsmg !

[g109]

For info, the crew on that flight is removed from roster.

[Good Business Sense]

Originally Posted by donpizmeov

I believe Airbus removed the baulked landing procedure about 6yrs ago (or was it more?) . Missed approach procedure covers all, with notes that PF should be careful with rotation rate when close to the ground . And that PM monitor, and only move flap when speed, attitude, thrust and flight path are checked, and its safe to do so . This works well .
Toga 10 would appear to be an orange company procedure to be used instead of the above .

It's a good thing to practice - especially so that you learn to expect and ignore the very distracting take-off warning (flaps) - used to train it on the aircraft (L1011) in amongst the touch and goes - really gives the pilot a lot of confidence i.e. one more unknown out of the way when dealing with challenging situations.

[Good Business Sense]

Originally Posted by Sussex79

Hi - I was a passenger on this flight. The pilot seemed concerned from the outset. When we boarded in Dubai he mentioned the predicted wind and rain at Gatwick and said “we hope to get you there safely”.

With the cameras we were able to watch both landings and we seeemed a long way from runway on both attempts. Would crew confidence and an obvious landing worry before we even left Dubai come into it?

What was then strange was it was announced we were diverting to Manchester yet spent another 15 mins circling around Brighton. . .

Prior to departure in my old long haul outfit I tended to advise of a "light breeze" at destination - at top of drop I'd say, "the breeze had freshened up a bit" and 10-15 miles out, before the big bumps started, I'd say, "expecting a few bumps on final approach" - no sense in having the pax worry for 10-16 hours so just enough info before the bumps start so that they didn't think you'd been surprised by it.

[slowjet]

172 Driver : Your post 39 ; Your commercial pride might just get in the way of professional obligation. So, with the fog clear & the sun out, in you go for your third but ATC orders a GA for whatever. Are you going in for a fourth ? Fog cleared, sun out & boy oh boy, you just take pride in getting your pax & freight in. Oh dear.

[Yaw String]

For all of you,sitting in front of a warm fire,cup of cocoa in hand,in ur slippers,spouting about the horror of anyone ignoring a windshear warning...One day,conditions may dictate,It could be a viable option for you too.
Generally,the killer shears are from microbursts related to large thunderstorms,or in mountainous terrain.
Heavens,.if my Piper Cub,back in the 80's at the LGC,had been fitted with windshear prediction equipment,east run days would have been drunken days at the bar,instead of white knuckle days!..Crikey,maybe you have a point!
Now i'll retreat to my WW1 trench and await incoming!!!

[tommy sussex]

Yaw String Old Boy, good post, sensible policies for a better Britain! I bet those tugs were fully equipped with SDWS (swamp donkey warning systems) to keep you clear of dangers closer to ground whilst the danger passed.

[172_driver]

172 Driver : Your post 39 ; Your commercial pride might just get in the way of professional obligation. So, with the fog clear & the sun out, in you go for your third but ATC orders a GA for whatever. Are you going in for a fourth ? Fog cleared, sun out & boy oh boy, you just take pride in getting your pax & freight in. Oh dear.

I was questioning a "no third attempt, period, SOP". If the book says so, I guess I have to comply. I am a bit surprised to see someone defend it though (actually...not really surprised). Once in-flight you do what seems sensible with the fuel you've got onboard and if that means a third attempt now when there is a very probable chance of success, why not? Explain it well to your passengers. And why come up with the extremes, like ATC ordering a go around? That's beyond your control and a fourth attempt may very well be justifiable. Again, explain it well to your crowd - for the anxious ones.

[FlightDetent]

Same here, in agreement. 2 approaches only - unless significant improvement in conditions that fouled those attempts.

[donpizmeov]

In the good old days we called it CDF .