Airlines must be majority EU owned
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Authorization
Each Party, on receipt of applications from an airline of the other Party, in the form and manner prescribed for operating authorizations and technical permissions, shall grant appropriate authorizations and permissions with minimum procedural delay, provided:
a. except as provided in Annex 1, substantial ownership and effective control of that airline are vested in the other Party, nationals of that Party, or both;
Annex 1
Concerning Additional Matters Related to Ownership and Control of UK Airlines
An airline of the United Kingdom that was authorized by the Department of Transportation as of November 28, 2018, shall be deemed to satisfy the ownership and control standards of Articles 3(a) and 4(1)(b) of the Agreement, provided that:
a. substantial ownership of the airline remains vested in the United Kingdom, one or more States that were party to the European Economic Area Agreement as of November 28, 2018, and continue to be such a party, nationals of one or more of these States, or a combination thereof, provided that any such State is party to a modern liberal air transport agreement with the United States that is being applied;
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In today's world of the Chinas, the Indias, the Asia Pacifics and the Donalds we need to unite to play some role ourselves. Going back to regional mode will not help as there is no more Empire.
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Whenever you do international business you need to find compromises with your partners. You don't escape this reality whether you like it or not or with or without the EU. Just look at "neutral" Switzerland or even "isolated" North Korea.
I find isolationism especially strange to come from aviation related people.
Maybe this time we should rebrand BA to become BOAC?
I find isolationism especially strange to come from aviation related people.
Maybe this time we should rebrand BA to become BOAC?
Last edited by Kerosene Kraut; 10th Feb 2019 at 14:52.
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But whatever. This is about ownership of airlines. ALL of the UK airlines are against Brexit.
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The per capita figures show that, relative to say Singapore or Qatar, the UK is getting over-crowded and is becoming less productive.
Where is your proof that ALL UK airlines are against Brexit?
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Where is your proof that ALL UK airlines are against Brexit?
Ryanair (well almost English) doesnt want Brexit
IAG errr BA doesnt want Brexit
Virgin: Doesnt want Brexit
FlyBE: err read Virgin
Jet2: Not sure but Europe becomes VERY expensive for their pax with the way the pound is going
It’s ok, we will actually survive outside an unelected bureaucratic entity, that will only ever enforce greater control.
Smart thinking! 
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Easyjet: doesnt want Brexit
Ryanair (well almost English) doesnt want Brexit
IAG errr BA doesnt want Brexit
Virgin: Doesnt want Brexit
FlyBE: err read Virgin
Jet2: Not sure but Europe becomes VERY expensive for their pax with the way the pound is going
Well let's take EASA as an example: before Brexit 30% of the work and rules was the result of UK staff and CAA involvement. After Brexit: no more say by the UK but you will still have to follow the rules as set by EASA AND still pay to be part of EASA but cannot vote anymore... Smart thinking!
Ryanair (well almost English) doesnt want Brexit
IAG errr BA doesnt want Brexit
Virgin: Doesnt want Brexit
FlyBE: err read Virgin
Jet2: Not sure but Europe becomes VERY expensive for their pax with the way the pound is going
Well let's take EASA as an example: before Brexit 30% of the work and rules was the result of UK staff and CAA involvement. After Brexit: no more say by the UK but you will still have to follow the rules as set by EASA AND still pay to be part of EASA but cannot vote anymore...
Smart thinking! You do not need to be in the EU to be in EASA.
So the UK can remain in EASA after Brexit, if it chooses to do so.
As you state, EASA needs the work that the UK contributes, so why would the UK suddenly have no say?
It may lose voting rights, but that would only be 1/32nd overall influence, not a lot to lose.
The CAA would simply align itself to those EASA rules that it considers sensible and relevant.
(By the way, you didn’t prove that ALL UK airlines don’t want Brexit!
That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence).
Last edited by 777JRM; 10th Feb 2019 at 16:39.
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Well, Willie Walsh doesn’t seem to care, but that doesn’t mean IAG employees want in or out.
it is a pointless discussion since an airline is made up of many people, some Brexiteers, some Remoaners.
Perhaps the managers don’t want to do the paperwork after Brexit.
it is a pointless discussion since an airline is made up of many people, some Brexiteers, some Remoaners.
Perhaps the managers don’t want to do the paperwork after Brexit.
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Sorry, forgot to answer that the first time round. They can. Re the intra Europe flights, the relevant provisions from Chicago:
Each contracting State shall have the right to refuse permission to the aircraft of other contracting States to take on in its territory passengers, mail and cargo carried for remuneration or hire and destined for another point within its territory.
That isn't the hard part. This is the hard part:
Each contracting State undertakes not to enter into any arrangements which specifically grants any such privilege on an exclusive basis to any other State or an airline of any other State, and not to obtain any such exclusive privilege from any other State.
The UK can't ask for special and the EU can't grant. Is an all or nothing proposition. Why a great number of states are rather strict with the cabotage.
Each contracting State shall have the right to refuse permission to the aircraft of other contracting States to take on in its territory passengers, mail and cargo carried for remuneration or hire and destined for another point within its territory.
That isn't the hard part. This is the hard part:
Each contracting State undertakes not to enter into any arrangements which specifically grants any such privilege on an exclusive basis to any other State or an airline of any other State, and not to obtain any such exclusive privilege from any other State.
The UK can't ask for special and the EU can't grant. Is an all or nothing proposition. Why a great number of states are rather strict with the cabotage.
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
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The elephant in the room...
Post Brexsh*t, UK AOC holders will need to show they are majority owned by UK nationals or entities.
No one notice Virgin Atlantic? Soon to be 49% owned by Delta, 31% owned by AF/KL and only 20% owned by the UK entity Virgin...
Whoops.
No one notice Virgin Atlantic? Soon to be 49% owned by Delta, 31% owned by AF/KL and only 20% owned by the UK entity Virgin...
Whoops.
So you can't name one in favor of BREXIT? Do the decent thing and admit it ................
May be the workers are concerned about their jobs post Brexit?? After all, they'll be the first to go - the management will be required "to manage the situation"
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Maybe you think we will be left in frozen darkness after March 29th?
Well, it could be worse; we could still be in the EU.
i admit I cannot prove a UK airline backs Brexit.
Yet, as stated earlier, no-one here can prove ALL UK airlines are against it.
Where is this proof?
Anyway, a democratic decision has been made, get over it; people can actually have a different, legitimate, reason that is in opposition to your own!
The choice has been made; we need to get on with it, and consider that actually being a normal country outside an unelected bureaucratic dictatorship can be a good thing, and that we can be optimistic about the opportunities in the future, free from an ever-deepening centralised controlling power that puts it’s own interests before those of the nations it claims to represent.
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You’re funny.
The Queen is not a dictator.
Look at the work she does for the nation.
Worth 50p a year?
And you would prefer to pay a lot more for that staggering drunk Juncker?
Which of the 5 EU presidents does the best work for the UK?
The Queen is not a dictator.
Look at the work she does for the nation.
Worth 50p a year?
And you would prefer to pay a lot more for that staggering drunk Juncker?
Which of the 5 EU presidents does the best work for the UK?
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Providing the name of just one UK airline that backs Brexit would make it impossible to prove all are against it. Sometimes it's not possible to prove X, but it is possible to disprove X by proving Y.
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The Queen is not a dictator.
Worth 50p a year?
And you would prefer to pay a lot more for that staggering drunk Juncker?
Which of the 5 EU presidents does the best work for the UK?
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
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This is a thought provoking article. From someone who knows what he is talking about....
No Deal - No Flights?
No Deal - No Flights?
