Airlines must be majority EU owned
Correct, EASA calls it Ownership and Control.
Word here is Lufthansa hired a bunch of high profile lawyers to study the case of critical airlines in terms of non-EU Ownership or Control, mostly IAG airlines, Ryanair, easyJet; and the day after Brexit (but only then) call for for rules to be strictly enforced, to gain an advantage of the situation.
Word here is Lufthansa hired a bunch of high profile lawyers to study the case of critical airlines in terms of non-EU Ownership or Control, mostly IAG airlines, Ryanair, easyJet; and the day after Brexit (but only then) call for for rules to be strictly enforced, to gain an advantage of the situation.
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Most countries (including the EU) require national airlines to be both owned AND controlled by nationals of that country. That means that the majority of directors must be of that nationality too. Quite a problem for ALL UK airlines right now
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No because they are majority EU owned, like UK airlines currently are.
It goes South when a country leaves the EU and their main shareholders are other EU interests, or in this case UK shareholders wishing to retain access to EU rights after leaving the EU
It goes South when a country leaves the EU and their main shareholders are other EU interests, or in this case UK shareholders wishing to retain access to EU rights after leaving the EU
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Correct, EASA calls it Ownership and Control.
Word here is Lufthansa hired a bunch of high profile lawyers to study the case of critical airlines in terms of non-EU Ownership or Control, mostly IAG airlines, Ryanair, easyJet; and the day after Brexit (but only then) call for for rules to be strictly enforced, to gain an advantage of the situation.
Word here is Lufthansa hired a bunch of high profile lawyers to study the case of critical airlines in terms of non-EU Ownership or Control, mostly IAG airlines, Ryanair, easyJet; and the day after Brexit (but only then) call for for rules to be strictly enforced, to gain an advantage of the situation.
Doesn't that then cause problems for airlines such as KLM, Brussels, Swiss, Austrian etc?
Not in the EU as any EU national can own an airline in another EU country, no country can enact a law to prevent it because that is contrary to the Freedom of movement.
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In this case the EU acts as one country through the Common Aviation Area. I though that was implicit in my statement. The UK will become a third country hence this discussion
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When the rule came in, many years ago, there were exemptions for airlines who were already majority owned outside of the EU (2 UK airlines at that time spring to mind, Britannia Airways, which was 100% ownbed by the Thomson Corporation in Canada and Monarch Airlines which was 100% owned in Switzerland)
That ownership per permitted to continue (since they could force the business to find new owners) but if any ownership change was to occur subsequently then majority ownership had to be within the EU.
One would hope that for the UK based airlines, those similar rules are agreed as part of BREXIT. (and yes Thomas Cook is a UK PLC, therefore Condor for example is 100% owned by a UK parent currently. Of course what we don't know is the % of TCPLC shareholders who are EU based but not UK based, it may be they still ahve over 50% EU shareholding without any change.
That ownership per permitted to continue (since they could force the business to find new owners) but if any ownership change was to occur subsequently then majority ownership had to be within the EU.
One would hope that for the UK based airlines, those similar rules are agreed as part of BREXIT. (and yes Thomas Cook is a UK PLC, therefore Condor for example is 100% owned by a UK parent currently. Of course what we don't know is the % of TCPLC shareholders who are EU based but not UK based, it may be they still ahve over 50% EU shareholding without any change.
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Most countries (including the EU) require national airlines to be both owned AND controlled by nationals of that country.
Should that now read as "EU owned" or do we accept the EU is,in essence, taking on the mantle of a nation?
There are no EU Nationals hence the point I made. UK will be a third country but I was focusing on the EU bit.
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The EU is not (yet) a single nation so you are correct that "EU nationals" doesn't make sense, strictly, however "National" and "Citizen" are often used interchangeably and are actually synonyms in various thesauri.
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I don't think the issue is whether UK nationals wil be able to go to Spain for their holidays. They will. Both EU and UK airlines will be able to
The issue is that because many "UK" airlines will wish to fly within the EU as well at the UK they will need to have a majority EU ownership status. So to preserve their business they may (EasyJet has I think) become majority EU owned. They are not really changing anything- it is the UK that has- they continue to be EU owned bit can't have their majority shareholding in the UK (which has left the club) anymore.
It poses a bit of a problem for IAG and British Airways may get caught up in divorce proceedings largely because of politics. It will be a bit amusing if "British Airways" is an EU owned and majority shareholder company.
Of course the UK will probably insist that British carriers are 51% UK owned- then expect British Airways and the other IAG companies to reflect different shareholding and an airline not flying within Europe (to from the UK) to have a British Identity. There aren't many of those at present (Eastern, Loganair, BMI Regional etc and for the moment Flybe?)
What a self inflicted mess. .
The issue is that because many "UK" airlines will wish to fly within the EU as well at the UK they will need to have a majority EU ownership status. So to preserve their business they may (EasyJet has I think) become majority EU owned. They are not really changing anything- it is the UK that has- they continue to be EU owned bit can't have their majority shareholding in the UK (which has left the club) anymore.
It poses a bit of a problem for IAG and British Airways may get caught up in divorce proceedings largely because of politics. It will be a bit amusing if "British Airways" is an EU owned and majority shareholder company.
Of course the UK will probably insist that British carriers are 51% UK owned- then expect British Airways and the other IAG companies to reflect different shareholding and an airline not flying within Europe (to from the UK) to have a British Identity. There aren't many of those at present (Eastern, Loganair, BMI Regional etc and for the moment Flybe?)
What a self inflicted mess. .
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I thought this was a Professional Pilot network... But ok:
YES THEY CAN AND THIS WAS CLEAR FROM DAY1.....
And it is not
"can they do that"
but
"I didnt realise I voted for this and only now start to realize how the real world works ? I have no f@cking clue about international traffic rights, my politicians lied to me as they knew but didnt tell me, my newspapers never told me honestly how the real world works and I believed lying Nigel who buggered off the day after the vote and realized what sh!t he had created"
So in short: THIS WAS CLEAR FROM DAY 1 SO CALL YOUR BL@@DY MP AND MOAN TO THEM AS THEY HAVE LIED TO YOU, NOBODY ELSE.
Ps: re negotiations: your politicians never told you it have never been NEGOTIATIONS. Under article 50 you have 6 (six) scenarios and you pick one. Your government was aware of this and has had 2 (TWO) year to pick one but they keep telling you we go back to Brussel to negotiate.... Lies, lies and politics... But hey keep dreaming of Rule Brittania and calling it project fear..
Rant over
YES THEY CAN AND THIS WAS CLEAR FROM DAY1.....
And it is not
"can they do that"
but
"I didnt realise I voted for this and only now start to realize how the real world works ? I have no f@cking clue about international traffic rights, my politicians lied to me as they knew but didnt tell me, my newspapers never told me honestly how the real world works and I believed lying Nigel who buggered off the day after the vote and realized what sh!t he had created"
So in short: THIS WAS CLEAR FROM DAY 1 SO CALL YOUR BL@@DY MP AND MOAN TO THEM AS THEY HAVE LIED TO YOU, NOBODY ELSE.
Ps: re negotiations: your politicians never told you it have never been NEGOTIATIONS. Under article 50 you have 6 (six) scenarios and you pick one. Your government was aware of this and has had 2 (TWO) year to pick one but they keep telling you we go back to Brussel to negotiate.... Lies, lies and politics... But hey keep dreaming of Rule Brittania and calling it project fear..
Rant over
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It isn’t a few and it isn’t just pilots. As a shareholder I don’t want to give away a substantial part of the businesssnd hence my dividend for some outdated political dream - just as well I won’t have to. As I said there aren’t many UK airlines - not currently British Airways, EasyJet, TUI, Virgin Atlantic so which UK airline are you taliking of.
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What does the UK/US open sky agreement say about ownership and control? The US said early on in the negotiations that they require the standard, which means BA et al need to be 50,1% owned by UK entities to fall under that agreement. Now idea how the final text reflects that, haven't really followed the talks about that.
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Interesting, however, from the EU side possible. Swiss airlines can fly from EU countries into third countries, they can fly from one EU country to another one, but they cannot fly (under their own flight number, but they can as wet lease) fly domestic flights in any EU country. In this case it would depend on any traffic right agreement between the EU and the UK as a third country.