Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Airlines must be majority EU owned

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Airlines must be majority EU owned

Old 10th Feb 2019, 09:28
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by clipstone1 View Post
I think the only major UK airline that flies to the USA will be Thomas Cook Airlines UK Ltd, no one else with regular US flights is majority UK owned are they?
They don't have to be majority owned.

Authorization

Each Party, on receipt of applications from an airline of the other Party, in the form and manner prescribed for operating authorizations and technical permissions, shall grant appropriate authorizations and permissions with minimum procedural delay, provided:

a. except as provided in Annex 1, substantial ownership and effective control of that airline are vested in the other Party, nationals of that Party, or both;

Annex 1

Concerning Additional Matters Related to Ownership and Control of UK Airlines

An airline of the United Kingdom that was authorized by the Department of Transportation as of November 28, 2018, shall be deemed to satisfy the ownership and control standards of Articles 3(a) and 4(1)(b) of the Agreement, provided that:

a. substantial ownership of the airline remains vested in the United Kingdom, one or more States that were party to the European Economic Area Agreement as of November 28, 2018, and continue to be such a party, nationals of one or more of these States, or a combination thereof, provided that any such State is party to a modern liberal air transport agreement with the United States that is being applied;
Yobo is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2019, 10:32
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 602
In today's world of the Chinas, the Indias, the Asia Pacifics and the Donalds we need to unite to play some role ourselves. Going back to regional mode will not help as there is no more Empire.
Kerosene Kraut is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2019, 15:31
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 602
Whenever you do international business you need to find compromises with your partners. You don't escape this reality whether you like it or not or with or without the EU. Just look at "neutral" Switzerland or even "isolated" North Korea.

I find isolationism especially strange to come from aviation related people.

Maybe this time we should rebrand BA to become BOAC?

Last edited by Kerosene Kraut; 10th Feb 2019 at 15:52.
Kerosene Kraut is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2019, 15:55
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: LUX
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by 777JRM View Post


We need to stop down-playing the UK, which is the 5th largest economy in the world with a global financial centre.

Itís ok, we will actually survive outside an unelected bureaucratic entity, that will only ever enforce greater control.

GDP per capita the UK is only number 22. Behind all the other Western European countries. Behind the French....

But whatever. This is about ownership of airlines. ALL of the UK airlines are against Brexit.
SaulGoodman is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2019, 16:01
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 602
Even EU airlines are that are to keep most of their market and their privileges within the EU.
Kerosene Kraut is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2019, 16:02
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by SaulGoodman View Post

GDP per capita the UK is only number 22. Behind all the other Western European countries. Behind the French....

But whatever. This is about ownership of airlines. ALL of the UK airlines are against Brexit.
ĎThe United Kingdom, with a $2.62 trillion GDP is the fifth-largest economy in the world.í

The per capita figures show that, relative to say Singapore or Qatar, the UK is getting over-crowded and is becoming less productive.


Where is your proof that ALL UK airlines are against Brexit?
777JRM is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2019, 16:58
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sky
Posts: 319
Where is your proof that ALL UK airlines are against Brexit?
Easyjet: doesnt want Brexit
Ryanair (well almost English) doesnt want Brexit
IAG errr BA doesnt want Brexit
Virgin: Doesnt want Brexit
FlyBE: err read Virgin
Jet2: Not sure but Europe becomes VERY expensive for their pax with the way the pound is going

Itís ok, we will actually survive outside an unelected bureaucratic entity, that will only ever enforce greater control.
Well let's take EASA as an example: before Brexit 30% of the work and rules was the result of UK staff and CAA involvement. After Brexit: no more say by the UK but you will still have to follow the rules as set by EASA AND still pay to be part of EASA but cannot vote anymore... Smart thinking!

Global_Global is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2019, 17:22
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by Global_Global View Post
Easyjet: doesnt want Brexit
Ryanair (well almost English) doesnt want Brexit
IAG errr BA doesnt want Brexit
Virgin: Doesnt want Brexit
FlyBE: err read Virgin
Jet2: Not sure but Europe becomes VERY expensive for their pax with the way the pound is going

Well let's take EASA as an example: before Brexit 30% of the work and rules was the result of UK staff and CAA involvement. After Brexit: no more say by the UK but you will still have to follow the rules as set by EASA AND still pay to be part of EASA but cannot vote anymore... Smart thinking!
EASA is comprosed of 32 nations.
You do not need to be in the EU to be in EASA.

So the UK can remain in EASA after Brexit, if it chooses to do so.

As you state, EASA needs the work that the UK contributes, so why would the UK suddenly have no say?
It may lose voting rights, but that would only be 1/32nd overall influence, not a lot to lose.

The CAA would simply align itself to those EASA rules that it considers sensible and relevant.

(By the way, you didn’t prove that ALL UK airlines don’t want Brexit!
That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence).


Last edited by 777JRM; 10th Feb 2019 at 17:39.
777JRM is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2019, 18:58
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,327
Originally Posted by 777JRM View Post
<snip>
(By the way, you didnít prove that ALL UK airlines donít want Brexit!
That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence).
Can you provide the name of one that's in favour?
cats_five is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2019, 20:06
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 19
Well, Willie Walsh doesn’t seem to care, but that doesn’t mean IAG employees want in or out.

it is a pointless discussion since an airline is made up of many people, some Brexiteers, some Remoaners.

Perhaps the managers don’t want to do the paperwork after Brexit.
777JRM is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2019, 13:01
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by BirdmanBerry View Post
Can they actually do this?
Sorry, forgot to answer that the first time round. They can. Re the intra Europe flights, the relevant provisions from Chicago:

Each contracting State shall have the right to refuse permission to the aircraft of other contracting States to take on in its territory passengers, mail and cargo carried for remuneration or hire and destined for another point within its territory.

That isn't the hard part. This is the hard part:

Each contracting State undertakes not to enter into any arrangements which specifically grants any such privilege on an exclusive basis to any other State or an airline of any other State, and not to obtain any such exclusive privilege from any other State.

The UK can't ask for special and the EU can't grant. Is an all or nothing proposition. Why a great number of states are rather strict with the cabotage.
Yobo is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2019, 20:23
  #52 (permalink)  
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Global Nomad
Age: 50
Posts: 887
The elephant in the room...

Post Brexsh*t, UK AOC holders will need to show they are majority owned by UK nationals or entities.

No one notice Virgin Atlantic? Soon to be 49% owned by Delta, 31% owned by AF/KL and only 20% owned by the UK entity Virgin...

Whoops.
TwinAisle is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2019, 23:02
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: FL510
Posts: 784
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/n...ip-post-brexit
safelife is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 08:25
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 96
Originally Posted by 777JRM View Post
Well, Willie Walsh doesnít seem to care, but that doesnít mean IAG employees want in or out.

it is a pointless discussion since an airline is made up of many people, some Brexiteers, some Remoaners.

Perhaps the managers donít want to do the paperwork after Brexit.

So you can't name one in favor of BREXIT? Do the decent thing and admit it ................

May be the workers are concerned about their jobs post Brexit?? After all, they'll be the first to go - the management will be required "to manage the situation"
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 13:09
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
So you can't name one in favor of BREXIT? Do the decent thing and admit it ................

May be the workers are concerned about their jobs post Brexit?? After all, they'll be the first to go - the management will be required "to manage the situation"
Stop the scaremongering.
Maybe you think we will be left in frozen darkness after March 29th?

Well, it could be worse; we could still be in the EU.


i admit I cannot prove a UK airline backs Brexit.

Yet, as stated earlier, no-one here can prove ALL UK airlines are against it.
Where is this proof?

Anyway, a democratic decision has been made, get over it; people can actually have a different, legitimate, reason that is in opposition to your own!

The choice has been made; we need to get on with it, and consider that actually being a normal country outside an unelected bureaucratic dictatorship can be a good thing, and that we can be optimistic about the opportunities in the future, free from an ever-deepening centralised controlling power that puts it’s own interests before those of the nations it claims to represent.





777JRM is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 13:27
  #56 (permalink)  
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Global Nomad
Age: 50
Posts: 887
an unelected bureaucratic dictatorship
Really?


Go on, admit it, 777JRM - you're Jacob Rees-Mogg
TwinAisle is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 15:20
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 19
You’re funny.

The Queen is not a dictator.
Look at the work she does for the nation.

Worth 50p a year?

And you would prefer to pay a lot more for that staggering drunk Juncker?

Which of the 5 EU presidents does the best work for the UK?
777JRM is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 15:39
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,327
Originally Posted by 777JRM View Post
<snip>
i admit I cannot prove a UK airline backs Brexit.

Yet, as stated earlier, no-one here can prove ALL UK airlines are against it.
Where is this proof?
<snip>
Providing the name of just one UK airline that backs Brexit would make it impossible to prove all are against it. Sometimes it's not possible to prove X, but it is possible to disprove X by proving Y.
cats_five is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 16:22
  #59 (permalink)  
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Global Nomad
Age: 50
Posts: 887
The Queen is not a dictator.
I didn't say she was.

Worth 50p a year?
Of course. What's your point?

And you would prefer to pay a lot more for that staggering drunk Juncker?
Juncker earns about €306k a year. Between the 512m of us in the EU, that's a twentieth of a cent each. So he is costing a lot LESS than the Queen. But thanks for playing.

Which of the 5 EU presidents does the best work for the UK?
They all work for all of us. They head up different institutions, and they are all elected.
TwinAisle is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 16:54
  #60 (permalink)  
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Global Nomad
Age: 50
Posts: 887
This is a thought provoking article. From someone who knows what he is talking about....

No Deal - No Flights?
TwinAisle is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.