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Orange A330

Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:32
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Orange A330

What have people heard RE: a certain orange loco placing an order for the A330? Complete rumour mill nonsense or realistic / genuine prospect?
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 20:28
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Would be simply to increase capacity rather than go long haul, if it happened. And that’s a big if.

It’s hard to make money on low cost long haul as Norwegian have found out. And Wow. And Primera. And...
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 22:53
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Unlikely to take the risk if you ask me. Still too much low hanging fruit around Europe to make that move any time soon.

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Old 28th Jan 2019, 23:00
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 01:42
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Haven't heard the rumour, but it would be an interesting development for European LCCs on select capacity constrained high density routes e.g. LGW to BCN
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 11:28
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It won't achieve short turnarounds and thus less rotations per day. I just don't see it, unless they are looking at L/H.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 11:33
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Syntax error.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 12:05
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I would say it's nothing more than a rumour.

Being the referred orange LoCo so conservative and with so much still to optimize and take advantage in intra-european flying I don't see them going Long-Haul anytime soon. That being said, I'm not saying they are not looking at (and probably in deeper studies) the possibility of introducing a widebody fleet or using the 321neo on longer routes, but I would say that at the most they would be on a study phase only.

There is still so much money to be made in Europe and with the A321neo equipped with 235 seats the constraint problem may have been deflected already. Bear in mind that at the moment the talk among those supposedly in the know is that we may already have overcapacity in Europe...

Currently pairing and rostering is a (fairly) easy task and the company can optimize the use of their crew and aircraft as well as adjust between winter and summer schedule fairly easy. Going Long-Haul will bring an array of complexity to the system that may only make sense if there is nothing more to do in Europe, and at the moment I see a lot of money to be made in Europe.

Further to the above, with the network the orange teams has set-up they can made 5 or 6 sectors each day with each aircraft on most bases - let's say that would be 1000 tickets sold. On the same time frame an A330 would only do 2 sectors (or less) - even at a high density configuration, the A330-900 would only be able to transport 700 pax. If you consider the delta on leasing an A321 compared to an A330 and add to the equation the current pricing of a transatlantic flight it is fairly easy math to say that the money is probably better used in leasing the A321s to deploy in and within Europe.

Cheers.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 12:09
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Jet2 Aer Lingus Air Europa and TCK all use the A330 regularly on short haul high season/high density routes like PMI RHO HER LPA TFS AGP DLM and Ski flights, so maybe EZY has also seen the
prospect of bigger a/c as useful to them as people movers.

Their new A321Neo with cabin flex allows up to 240 seats and 320Neo with 186 which are so much bigger than their original ethos of 737-700 148 Y and A319 156Y
Their A319's are all going in due course.

TUI still use the 767-300 with 300+ seats on IT flights plus their 787's

In the past LTU used their 330's with 440 seats on many short hauls
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 14:01
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rog747, true, however, in all cases these airlines were using these types on their European routes in addition to significant L/H work. It might economically be different using these types exclusively on European routes.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 14:39
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in all cases these airlines were using these types on their European routes in addition to significant L/H work.
Not Jet2, the A330 is used on European short haul only, apart from a couple of the New York’s in winter 17/18.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 14:47
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Originally Posted by Johnny [email protected] Pants View Post


Not Jet2, the A330 is used on European short haul only, apart from a couple of the New York’s in winter 17/18.
Correct, but Jet2 and “their” A330 seems hardly a good point for the sake of this discussion. As far as I understand the A330 is leased from AirTanker and only for the Summer season.

As as for the other examples, I would say that’s probably optimization of fleet, probably idling in between long-haul flights, rather than a decision to use them merely on the short-haul network. And I believe that was the point of all those that feel the orange guys will probably not introduce a widebody aircraft to their fleet any time soon.

At list prices, an A330-900 costs more than double of the A321neo. On top of that you’ll get higher navigation and landing fees and an increased cost per seat. Will it make sense for the extra 50% if available seats to sell? I doubt... could be an option if the plan is to go transatlantic as well, using the aircraft for short hops on those high density routes in between long-haul sectors.

Again, with so much more money to make still in europe, and being then so conservative in their business decisions, I find it hard to believe that time will come soon.
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Old 29th Jan 2019, 14:49
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Short haul work for long haul airliners is not cheap. For one, maintenance requirements tied to cycles are quite stringent and cycles amass much faster. Of course, Airbus certified its A330-300 Regional, which might solve some of those problems, however, from what i have found on it so far, it is simply a reduced gross weight version, with a high density seat configuration of 400 passengers. Even that type, has higher ASK cost than an A320NEO and A321NEO. It is extremely hard to beat those (or the Boeing 737 equivalent) on a cost basis, and so far neither Boeing nor Airbus have claimed to have done that. Therefore, any widebody aircraft exclusively for short haul service would make only sense on city pairs where it is impossible to get more slots, which i believe was one of the reasons for the former BA 767 european fleet (similar for the Lufthansa A300). Otherwise it would be cheaper to simply fly two A321 instead, which can transport more passengers as well, with up to 480.

Of course, if the airline has to operate widebody aircraft anyway to serve certain routes, mostly longhaul ones, it can be used for the occasional short haul route as well, although that comes at a cost as again cycles add up faster. My former employer, who did that for quite a few years discovered that fact after quite a few years, when wondering at a top level, why maintenance costs were consistently above projections. Or simply said, the route planners didn't talk to the maintenance department...
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Old 30th Jan 2019, 00:36
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The picture in post #4 is of an A340.
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Old 30th Jan 2019, 04:48
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What makes Easyjet different to many other Low Fare Airlines?

Analysing their macro level data across numerous metrics is very revealing: They focus on what they know.
Their business grows linearly and proportionally, setting it apart from many other Low Fare Airlines.
That they stick to what they know may be part of the reason for their success. Not only have they grown, they have preserved operating margin in a business notoriously harsh on the incumbents.

That they would, in the part of the business cycle we are currently in, consider changing substantively their model is simply not consistent with their observed performance and thus success.
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