CNBC: FAA halting flights into LGA due ATC staffing
Rebel PPRuNer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Toronto, Canada (formerly EICK)
Age: 50
Posts: 2,834
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CNBC: FAA halting flights into LGA due ATC staffing
https://www.fly.faa.gov/flyfaa/flyfa...p?ARPT=LGA&p=0
Due to OTHER / ZDC + ZJX STAFFING and OTHER / STAFFING, there is a Traffic Management Program in effect for traffic arriving La Guardia Airport, New York, NY (LGA). This is causing some arriving flights to be delayed an average of 41 minutes.
Last edited by MarkD; 25th Jan 2019 at 15:20.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hadlow
Age: 60
Posts: 597
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LaGuardia Airport closed due to Federal shutdown
BBC reporting that LaGuardia airport, New York City has been closed due to a shortage fo Air Traffic Control staff.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47006907
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47006907
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Schiphol
Posts: 410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Issues expected were:
. Traffic delays, ... Some terminals were closed because of lack of security staff, this adds controllers,
. Delays in aircraft deliveries, ... Could become quite serious because of balance of trade issues,
. Delays in aircraft accident investigations, ... I did not read however that the NTSB was on the 'list',
. Traffic delays, ... Some terminals were closed because of lack of security staff, this adds controllers,
. Delays in aircraft deliveries, ... Could become quite serious because of balance of trade issues,
. Delays in aircraft accident investigations, ... I did not read however that the NTSB was on the 'list',
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my part of the world this is called "slavery", and it has been illegal for quite a long time now. I thought that even the USA had got round to abolishing it eventually?
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 344
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What a misleading title and story.
The airport is not closed as you can easily see on any tracking website. It was never closed.
There was a ground stop in place. That means no new flights were allowed to take off with destination LGA.
The ground stop has since been lifted and the rate limited to 30. (Which is basically the standard rate if there is some unvaforable winds, basically every 3rd day)
Also there have been rate reductions in the New York area without any shutdowns. They are understaffed and it is prime season for colds with sore throats.
The facility was understaffed before because they do quite a bit of vectoring in complicated airspace so it's hard to get new trainees, at least that's what i read somewhere.
Not saying that the shutdown is not contributing to the staffing shortage but just assuming the staffing shortage is because of the shutdown is just crazy.
Anyway great reporting by BBC there, so accurate and not jumping to any conclusions at all.
The airport is not closed as you can easily see on any tracking website. It was never closed.
There was a ground stop in place. That means no new flights were allowed to take off with destination LGA.
The ground stop has since been lifted and the rate limited to 30. (Which is basically the standard rate if there is some unvaforable winds, basically every 3rd day)
Also there have been rate reductions in the New York area without any shutdowns. They are understaffed and it is prime season for colds with sore throats.
The facility was understaffed before because they do quite a bit of vectoring in complicated airspace so it's hard to get new trainees, at least that's what i read somewhere.
Not saying that the shutdown is not contributing to the staffing shortage but just assuming the staffing shortage is because of the shutdown is just crazy.
Anyway great reporting by BBC there, so accurate and not jumping to any conclusions at all.
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: The Midlands
Age: 39
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's all do do with the fact that once the US Government re-opens, all back pay will be honoured, so contractual obligations remain in place. Sort of a similar situation when a company goes into administration the night before staff are due to be paid - the administrators would keep the business open, but pay the staff once they've worked out the ins and outs. (bit of an oblique comparison there, but it sort of puts the context on it).
Last edited by diffident; 25th Jan 2019 at 16:13. Reason: changed "rights" for "obligations"
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For me time is of the essence in a contract of employment. If my pay is one day late I'm not working the next day, because I'm too busy looking for a new job.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Costa del Swanwick
Posts: 833
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But not many ATC jobs to just slide into. Knowing some of the top people at NATCA, they are nothing but professional towards their members and the travelling public. What a shame Trump can't be the same.
Plus at some levels there is some sense of responsibility and pride - they want to keep the system they've devoted their lives to functioning. At least up to a point.
Problem for the FAA is that they have a substantial number of employees close to retirement anyway, who may just decide "F*ck it - I'll retire now and at least I'll get my pension uninterrupted!" Then we'll have 4-5 years of "short-staffing" until newbie controllers complete training and gain enough experience to be able to handle New York or other high-traffic, high-pressure locations.
I'm absolutely staggered this is allowed to happen in the western world. I get the politics of it, but when it comes to a number of occupations such as ATC, FBI, Coastguard among others it puts lives at risk.
If for example 2 aircraft collide on intersecting runways due a bum clearance being given by a controller who is fatigued due not getting paid and either being up all night worrying or driving an Über, who is liable?
Or if the person at the scanner misses the knife in the carry on luggage because they can't keep their eyes open.
Madness.
If for example 2 aircraft collide on intersecting runways due a bum clearance being given by a controller who is fatigued due not getting paid and either being up all night worrying or driving an Über, who is liable?
Or if the person at the scanner misses the knife in the carry on luggage because they can't keep their eyes open.
Madness.
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Schiphol
Posts: 410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ diffident
.
As I understand it this is not automatically and necessarily true. Lawmakers need a majority in a separate agreement to make that true. They have agreed recently on guaranteeing funds for at least some staff. So staff could even be held hostage by witholding backpay.
From aerospace industry views on stress and fatigue effects and risks, the whole thing is quite irresponsible. I wonder if there is a legal precedent when an accident would happen in these circumstances.
It's all do do with the fact that once the US Government re-opens, all back pay will be honoured,
As I understand it this is not automatically and necessarily true. Lawmakers need a majority in a separate agreement to make that true. They have agreed recently on guaranteeing funds for at least some staff. So staff could even be held hostage by witholding backpay.
From aerospace industry views on stress and fatigue effects and risks, the whole thing is quite irresponsible. I wonder if there is a legal precedent when an accident would happen in these circumstances.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Costa del Swanwick
Posts: 833
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm absolutely staggered this is allowed to happen in the western world. I get the politics of it, but when it comes to a number of occupations such as ATC, FBI, Coastguard among others it puts lives at risk.
If for example 2 aircraft collide on intersecting runways due a bum clearance being given by a controller who is fatigued due not getting paid and either being up all night worrying or driving an Über, who is liable?
Or if the person at the scanner misses the knife in the carry on luggage because they can't keep their eyes open.
Madness.
If for example 2 aircraft collide on intersecting runways due a bum clearance being given by a controller who is fatigued due not getting paid and either being up all night worrying or driving an Über, who is liable?
Or if the person at the scanner misses the knife in the carry on luggage because they can't keep their eyes open.
Madness.
Last edited by 250 kts; 25th Jan 2019 at 19:32.
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: The Midlands
Age: 39
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ diffident .
As I understand it this is not automatically and necessarily true. Lawmakers need a majority in a separate agreement to make that true. They have agreed recently on guaranteeing funds for at least some staff. So staff could even be held hostage by witholding backpay.
From aerospace industry views on stress and fatigue effects and risks, the whole thing is quite irresponsible. I wonder if there is a legal precedent when an accident would happen in these circumstances.
As I understand it this is not automatically and necessarily true. Lawmakers need a majority in a separate agreement to make that true. They have agreed recently on guaranteeing funds for at least some staff. So staff could even be held hostage by witholding backpay.
From aerospace industry views on stress and fatigue effects and risks, the whole thing is quite irresponsible. I wonder if there is a legal precedent when an accident would happen in these circumstances.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: In a Pineapple Under the Sea
Age: 61
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
US federal employees are now guaranteed all back pay. While that doesn't justify having to show up without pay - at least Congress has passed a law, signed by the President, that guarantees all workers will get back pay.
The 2019 Government Employee Fair Treatment Act ensures back pay for furloughed workers and mandates that the roughly 500,000 employees working without immediate pay during the shutdown are able to take previously scheduled leave without consequence.
As an aside, US federal employees are prohibited by law from going on strike (Taft-Hartley Act) - which is why you see some "calling out sick".
The 2019 Government Employee Fair Treatment Act ensures back pay for furloughed workers and mandates that the roughly 500,000 employees working without immediate pay during the shutdown are able to take previously scheduled leave without consequence.
As an aside, US federal employees are prohibited by law from going on strike (Taft-Hartley Act) - which is why you see some "calling out sick".
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Costa del Swanwick
Posts: 833
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
US federal employees are now guaranteed all back pay. While that doesn't justify having to show up without pay - at least Congress has passed a law, signed by the President, that guarantees all workers will get back pay.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North by Northwest
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
US federal employees are now guaranteed all back pay. While that doesn't justify having to show up without pay - at least Congress has passed a law, signed by the President, that guarantees all workers will get back pay.
The 2019 Government Employee Fair Treatment Act ensures back pay for furloughed workers and mandates that the roughly 500,000 employees working without immediate pay during the shutdown are able to take previously scheduled leave without consequence.
As an aside, US federal employees are prohibited by law from going on strike (Taft-Hartley Act) - which is why you see some "calling out sick".
The 2019 Government Employee Fair Treatment Act ensures back pay for furloughed workers and mandates that the roughly 500,000 employees working without immediate pay during the shutdown are able to take previously scheduled leave without consequence.
As an aside, US federal employees are prohibited by law from going on strike (Taft-Hartley Act) - which is why you see some "calling out sick".
