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777X

Old 19th Jan 2019, 22:15
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777X

A comprehensive, if brief, glimpse at Boeing's newest venture. (My search of 777X came up all balls, but feel free to move if necessary MODS.)

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/777x...080000250.html

- Ed
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 02:37
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Hmmmmm... so a stretched, re-engined update of a 23 year old plane is going to "change flying forever".

You know, I'm willing to bet that it doesn't.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 08:10
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Don’t know much about Boeing then do you.......
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 09:43
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Boeing are stretching the 777?

Who knew?
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 10:45
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"inside the Everett assembly plant in north-east America"

​​​​​​They have 2? Now that is a game changer.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 20:32
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Originally Posted by er340790 View Post
Hmmmmm... so a stretched, re-engined update of a 23 year old plane is going to "change flying forever".
Lets see - completely new engine, completely new composite wing, new flight deck, nearly all the avionics new, completely revamped fuselage (about the only part of the fuselage that isn't changing is the outside diameter).
So yea, 23 year old plane
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 20:42
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
Lets see - completely new engine, completely new composite wing, new flight deck, nearly all the avionics new, completely revamped fuselage (about the only part of the fuselage that isn't changing is the outside diameter).
So yea, 23 year old plane
So, completely NEW aircraft is what you're saying.

The only commonality to the old 777 is that it's a twin and made by Boeing. And it's still a 777?
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 22:10
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Originally Posted by OK4Wire View Post
So, completely NEW aircraft is what you're saying.

The only commonality to the old 777 is that it's a twin and made by Boeing. And it's still a 777?
The proof of the pudding will be whether the 777X is grandfathered onto the current 777 Type Certificate. If it's essentially a new aircraft it won't and can't be.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 22:37
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
The proof of the pudding will be whether the 777X is grandfathered onto the current 777 Type Certificate. If it's essentially a new aircraft it won't and can't be.
Depends on the flight characteristics and procedures - the 757 and 767 are very obviously different aircraft, yet they have a common type rating.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 23:15
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
Depends on the flight characteristics and procedures - the 757 and 767 are very obviously different aircraft, yet they have a common type rating.
No, it doesn't. The 757 and 767 don't share a Type Certficate.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 23:27
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Commonality

Commercially it must be a winner if one can achieve commonality. TDRacer’s comments about the 757/767 are relevant here. I was current on both and found them to be two quite different aircraft – but they both did have something very fundamental in common – they were both aeroplanes – and back is up!

There has been a huge amount of comment here about the variations in past and present flying skills, especially stick versus automation. Many regret the emphasis away from crop dusting, club instructing and other basic forms of flying. Personally, I also regret this. I did my first 1,000 hours in military light aircraft, mostly on active service, and this brought one to the boundaries of the flight envelope far more so than even remotely possible in commercial aviation. But, by goodness, you learned about flying! But once I got used to it, I found that a very large four engined turbo prop, then an unmentionable three (4) engined jet, then 757 and 767 all had something in common – they were all aeroplanes – and they flew like that too – just like the Auster IX!

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Old 20th Jan 2019, 23:50
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Commonality

Quote from post #10. "The 757 and 767 don't share a Type Certficate."
Spelling apart (see me after), All my recurrency checks on the 757/767 were done in either a 757 or 767 sim, whichever just happened to be available at the time. I, and all the other instructors, were under the impression that they were on a common type rating. Maybe that is not the certificate referred to, but it was treated by us to be a common type (even if it actually was not). (Plenty of more anecdotal evidence of that in my head if you want!)
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 00:02
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Originally Posted by Prober View Post
Quote from post #10. "The 757 and 767 don't share a Type Certficate."
Spelling apart (see me after), All my recurrency checks on the 757/767 were done in either a 757 or 767 sim, whichever just happened to be available at the time. I, and all the other instructors, were under the impression that they were on a common type rating. Maybe that is not the certificate referred to, but it was treated by us to be a common type (even if it actually was not). (Plenty of more anecdotal evidence of that in my head if you want!)
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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Boeing 757
Icelandair Boeing 757-200 on final approachRoleNarrow-body jet airlinerNational originUnited StatesManufacturerBoeing Commercial AirplanesFirst flightFebruary 19, 1982IntroductionJanuary 1, 1983, with Eastern Air LinesStatusIn servicePrimary usersDelta Air LinesProduced1981–2004Number built1,050[1]Unit cost
  • 757-200: US$65 million (2002)
  • 757-300: US$80 million (2002)
VariantsBoeing C-32The Boeing 757 is a mid-size, narrow-body twin-engine jet airliner that was designed and built by Boeing Commercial Airplanes. It is the manufacturer's largest single-aisle passenger aircraft and was produced from 1981 to 2004. The twinjet has a two-crew member glass cockpit, turbofan engines of sufficient power to allow takeoffs from relatively short runways and higher altitudes, a conventional tail and, for reduced aerodynamic drag, a supercritical wing design. Intended to replace the smaller three-engine 727 on short and medium routes, the 757 can carry 200 to 295 passengers for a maximum of 3,150 to 4,100 nautical miles (5,830 to 7,590 km), depending on variant. The 757 was designed concurrently with a wide-body twinjet, the 767, and, owing to shared features, pilots can obtain a common type rating that allows them to operate both aircraft.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 00:29
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I’m sure it will do well



I just can’t get my head around the massive reduction in overall thrust for an aircraft that has the same gross weight as the -300 ER


Is the bigger wing going to make that much difference?
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 00:49
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DR, of course we're talking about two different things - type cert vs. type rating. But the 777 type cert is a given - the FAA (and EASA) have already accepted the project as an amended type cert to the 777 (not much has to stay common to make it an ATC rather than a new TC). There are some common parts between the 777 and the 777X - the tail is pretty much unchanged, and I suspect that includes the APU installation (not sure about that part), and as noted the fuselage OD is unchanged (although fuselage structure is quite a bit different. But look at the 747-8, compared to the 747-100 - not much common aside from the fuselage diameter and the tail, but no one has complained that the 747-8 isn't really a 747...
Sure Boeing could have called it something else - it wouldn't have made much difference in the end - but all the operators care about is common type rating - so that can seamlessly move crews between the 777 and the 777X.
Oh Stilton - remember the current 777 wing was originally designed for the 777-200 and a much lower MTOW. The 777X wing is quite a bit bigger in area.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 02:30
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They were running out of numbers, with only '9' left for the rest of time, so they had to reuse '7'.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 03:37
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
The proof of the pudding will be whether the 777X is grandfathered onto the current 777 Type Certificate. If it's essentially a new aircraft it won't and can't be.
AFAIK the DC9 and the B717 are the same type certificate, but the FAA denied Fokker the same for the F27 and the F50. Type Certificate doesn't mean as much as it should.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 06:36
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Originally Posted by PAXboy View Post
They were running out of numbers, with only '9' left for the rest of time, so they had to reuse '7'.
My first thought, too. Maybe they'll start using letters next, like 7A7? Hexadecimal?
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 06:52
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It sort of concerns me when there are professional pilots out there who don't know the difference between a licence Type Rating and an aircraft Type Certificate.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 07:30
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Originally Posted by hans brinker View Post
AFAIK the DC9 and the B717 are the same type certificate, but the FAA denied Fokker the same for the F27 and the F50. Type Certificate doesn't mean as much as it should.
No. you're wrong, I'm afraid. The Fokker 50 (alias F27 Mark 050) was most certainly added 30 years later to the original 1957 F27 Type Certificate.

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