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last 727 Pax Flight

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last 727 Pax Flight

Old 20th Jan 2019, 16:22
  #101 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Flava Saver



I’ve never seen a -200 with an oval intake on number 2. Can anyone provide a photo of a -200 with this setup?
Perhaps it was the -100 that had the oval #2 inlet. It's been a long time.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 16:56
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aterpster
Perhaps it was the -100 that had the oval #2 inlet. It's been a long time.
That's my understanding.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 17:34
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Joe le Taxi
No need to dive into Samedan (follow the published visual route along the valley and not the scary spiral they were doing)
That's indeed an odd approach they are flying - anyone with specifics ?
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 18:08
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Originally Posted by aterpster
The joke was on the passengers and crews.
The company I was flying them for put -7s on some 200s because "the engines are lighter and we can haul more freight." That might have been true on an ISA standard day but go up a couple thousand feet and crank up the temperature and we were leaving freight behind. Everything got upped to -9s or -15s in a year.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 02:51
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In the days of analog devices and the pair of wires which accompanied many of them, the real estate needed for the man-machine interface in the 727 was quite expansive.

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Old 21st Jan 2019, 03:36
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Originally Posted by punkalouver
...Like the DC-9, you might end up having to listen to unsynced engines, especially in the climb. I tried to sync them up in cruise as I thought I could barely feel the sensation of unsynced engines. As a pax, you would hear those engine on approach in the back
Yah - that comment kicked off a memory of my early flight mentioned previously. The MMMMMMmmmmmmMMMMmmMmMmMmMmMmMmMMMMmmmmMMMMMMMmmmmmmmMMMMMMM of the unsynced engines "beating" as we climbed and turned over Boston Harbor. Of course, my seat was aughty-F (I could see into the #3 fan right outside the window) - but that sound came to symbolize "jet travel" to me for quite a while.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 04:55
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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I got my A&P in '78, and my first job wrenching on the big jets was in '79 working on Mexicana 727s with the JATO option. After a year or so, I got on with UA, and shortly had to relocate to ORD, where I got taxi/runup qualified on all the fleet, but the 727 was my favorite. Commuting back to SFO, I would usually take a DC-10 flight home (prime rib sliced seat-side in F/C), but occasionally the -10 was full, so I would slide down the concourse and jump on a 727 ORD-OAK-SFO. The OAK-SFO leg was usually empty, so I could jump-seat for the Bay tour. Depart RWY 27, head down the Bay, then line up on 28 at SFO. Those guys were busy, but it was great to watch. Loved the 727, except for the tire changes. Big freaking tires.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 08:49
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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33M,

Do you know where that pic was taken ? From the view out the windows (and the lack of a F/E seat), it appears to be a static display.


Originally Posted by ThreeThreeMike
In the days of analog devices and the pair of wires which accompanied many of them, the real estate needed for the man-machine interface in the 727 was quite expansive.

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Old 21st Jan 2019, 12:50
  #109 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by bafanguy
33M,

Do you know where that pic was taken ? From the view out the windows (and the lack of a F/E seat), it appears to be a static display.
It appears to be the flight deck only,
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 12:51
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TWA paid extra to have the switches go in the "wrong" direction. Same for the 707, 880, and at least the DC-9-10.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 14:33
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Originally Posted by aterpster
It appears to be the flight deck only,
I'm going to guess it's in a museum judging from the dining tables. The Delta museum in KATL rents out the venue to non-av functions where dining is involved. I've never been there but should probably drop by to see if my pension check is on display since it's...history.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 14:33
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aterpster
It appears to be the flight deck only,
It's the nose of ex EAL/FedEx 727-100C N8160G (19360) which is (was?) at the Boeing Future of Flight Center at Paine Field:



Boeing 727-25C - Eastern Air Lines Aviation Photo #4221021 Airliners.net
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 15:00
  #113 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by aterpster
TWA paid extra to have the switches go in the "wrong" direction. Same for the 707, 880, and at least the DC-9-10.
Somebody did the same to the A320. I was in USA in the sim and found them. Cannot remember who it was though.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 16:11
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Here's a 1983 UPI archive article on the end of 727 production:

Final production of Boeing 727
July 26, 1983By MARTIN HEERWALD
SEATTLE -- The jetliner that has been decorated by a king, survived a Mach 1 dive and been a best-seller in commercial aviation since the early jet era is quitting while it's ahead.

The Boeing 727 will be taken out of production in August of next year, company officials have announced. They said the three-engine, medium-range plane has been the success story of the airways, far exceeding its early promise.
Back in 1960, the Boeing Co. was keeping its fingers crossed that it would be able to place as many as 400 of the 727s in commercial airline fleets. They weren't even close.


When the last of the 727s comes off the line in August, 1984, it will be the No. 1,832. It will go to Federal Express, Boeing's newest commercial airplane customer.
Total 727 sales amount to more than $20 billion, and it's estimated 727s of all kinds have carried more than 2.2 billion passengers.

The 727 was first put into commercial service by United and Eastern Airlines in early 1964. In nearly 20 years of service under the flags of scores of carriers, the 727 has proven to be tough and durable.

Boeing spokesman Tom Cole said the popular trijet will be the first of Boeing's family of jetliners to go out of production. Military versions of the 707, the company's first jet transport, are still being produced.

Cole said the 727, the right plane at the right time for so many airlines around the world, must give way to newer, more fuel-efficient models.

Boeing hopes that when it comes time for airlines to replace their 727s over the next couple of decades, the successor will be the new 757. The twin-engine 757 already has proved it can carry 185 passengers at substantially less cost than the 727 can transport 145 customers.

But the 727 will be flying short-to-medium routes well into the 1990s.

Cole said nothing compares to the amazing sales success of the 727, which brought the jet age to many smaller airports around the world.

'It is far and away the most sold commercial airplane of any kind that has ever been built, and that includes all propeller airplanes,' he said.

'A lot of people think more DC-3s were produced than any other airplane, but there were only several hundred commercial models of the DC-3. The others were produced as military planes in World War II.'

Cole said the 727's closest rival in planes sold is the DC-9. McDonnell Douglas has taken orders for nearly 1,200 of the two-engine transport.

The 727 still is one of the quietest and most flexible transports, the Boeing spokesman said.

'We're sad to see it go, but we're not crying,' Cole said, 'because we're also glad to see progress toward a more efficient airplane.'

And there are episodes of glory to remember.

No one knows better the kind of punishment the trijet can take than King Hassan II of Morocco, who had good reason to 'pin' a medal on his 727 -- giving it the Head of the Order of the Throne, the kingdom's most cherished award.

The king was returning over the Mediterranean from France in 1972 when his escort of three Moroccan jet fighters suddenly turned enemy in a coup attempt and poured machine gun and cannon fire into the transport. One of the jets rammed the tail of the 727.

The pilot of the plane got on the radio and convinced the attackers they should quit firing because they had already killed the king. But that was a ruse. The badly damaged 727 managed to land at Rabat and King Hassan emerged without injury.

Boeing repaired the plane and restored it to service.

Trans World Airlines also can attest to the toughness of the 727.

In April 1979, a TWA 727 suddenly plunged from 39,000 feet to 5,000 feet in a tight, spiraling dive and was near the speed of sound when the pilot managed to pull out and level off.

TWA engineers spent more than a half-million dollars examining the aircraft, virtually taking it apart and putting it back together. They found 'absolutely no' structural damage. The dive was blamed on a freak performance of a wing slat.

The 727 was put back into service the same year, first as a training plane and later on regular commercial flights.

Originally Posted by fantom

No, just had a look at the excellent data from Bafanguy and it shows the three we gave to Syria 9K AFB/C/D as -17Rs. ...
Years ago I believe you or somebody else here mentioned sheep being ritually bled to death in celebration of the planes' arrival in Damascus. The celebrants then put bloody handprints on the side of the aircraft.

Last edited by Airbubba; 21st Jan 2019 at 16:37.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 15:14
  #115 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Airbubba;[left
Years ago I believe you or somebody else here mentioned sheep being ritually bled to death in celebration of the planes' arrival in Damascus. The celebrants then put bloody handprints on the side of the aircraft.
[/left]
You have to live there to see/believe what goes on.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 15:23
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Originally Posted by Airbubba

Years ago I believe you or somebody else here mentioned sheep being ritually bled to death in celebration of the planes' arrival in Damascus. The celebrants then put bloody handprints on the side of the aircraft.
In the 80s I have seen it many times at Istanbul Atatürk airport.

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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 16:50
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Regarding TWA 841 in 1979, it is inaccurate to say the airplane suffered no structural damage. It suffered substantial structural damage but was able to be repaired. CVR had mysteriously been erased, Captain "Hoot" Gibson was never cleared. Word through the aviation mechanics network was the FE was "fooling around" with a flight attendant who accidentally extended the #7 slat at FL 390. Most reports only state substantial damage but living by the TWA overhaul base at the time, I remember wings needing to be replaced. In a trial that awarded a passenger $50,000 in emotional distress, the court record state the wings were bent and the fuselage was wrinkled, yet it was repaired. Also testimony states the FE was in the lavatory at the time but as the CVR had been erased the crew was left with a less than honorable legacy. Still the 727 withstood a 6g loading yet recovered for a safe landing. Emotional distress? I would have accepted sitting in the bar with a free tab until a flight was arranged to take me on to MSP, the 727's destination.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 12:38
  #118 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by NWA SLF
Regarding TWA 841 in 1979, it is inaccurate to say the airplane suffered no structural damage. It suffered substantial structural damage but was able to be repaired. CVR had mysteriously been erased, Captain "Hoot" Gibson was never cleared. Word through the aviation mechanics network was the FE was "fooling around" with a flight attendant who accidentally extended the #7 slat at FL 390. Most reports only state substantial damage but living by the TWA overhaul base at the time, I remember wings needing to be replaced. In a trial that awarded a passenger $50,000 in emotional distress, the court record state the wings were bent and the fuselage was wrinkled, yet it was repaired. Also testimony states the FE was in the lavatory at the time but as the CVR had been erased the crew was left with a less than honorable legacy. Still the 727 withstood a 6g loading yet recovered for a safe landing. Emotional distress? I would have accepted sitting in the bar with a free tab until a flight was arranged to take me on to MSP, the 727's destination.
Neither the FAA nor TWA took any action against the crew. There was no requirement to preserve the CVR in 1979. It is unknown whether the crew erased the CVR. It is known that the aircraft was on either APU or ground power so the CVR cycled more than 30 minutes.

I flew the airplane not long after it returned to service. The only wrinkled skin was around the lower, very aft portion of the fuselage. It was a -100 (-31 for TWA).
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 15:20
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Originally Posted by NWA SLF
Word through the aviation mechanics network was the FE was "fooling around" with a flight attendant who accidentally extended the #7 slat at FL 390.
All the slats were extended. No 7, previously misaligned, subsequently failed to retract when the others did.

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Old 24th Jan 2019, 22:44
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Originally Posted by aterpster
Neither the FAA nor TWA took any action against the crew. There was no requirement to preserve the CVR in 1979. It is unknown whether the crew erased the CVR. It is known that the aircraft was on either APU or ground power so the CVR cycled more than 30 minutes.

I flew the airplane not long after it returned to service. The only wrinkled skin was around the lower, very aft portion of the fuselage. It was a -100 (-31 for TWA).


From reading ‘scapegoat’ a recent book on
this incident( you may find interesting atrp) it seemed to be routine procedure on those days to delete the CVR after each flight


Not surprised the magnificent 727 stayed together that night though, Boeing builds a superb, strong aircraft
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