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777-300 Landing Tailstrike 11 Dec 2018 in Hong Kong

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777-300 Landing Tailstrike 11 Dec 2018 in Hong Kong

Old 13th Jan 2019, 05:07
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Considering that the PF was getting the feel of the aircraft first time and below 200ft. aircraft was laterally disturbed requiring correction which wasn't adequately coming from the PF and CM1 had to intervene he might as well have postponed the first landing of the FO to another day and completed the landing himself. Two people trying to maintain the center line nobody seems to have flared. 777 is a big aircraft to successfully do all that at such a low altitude. What happened to stabilized approach concept?

Last edited by vilas; 13th Jan 2019 at 05:35.
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 11:03
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting that, judging by the photos in post #2, the damage was sustained roughly in line with the bulk cargo door - several frames forward of the tailskid.
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 11:27
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Why is that interesting?
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 11:44
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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With a high rate of descent in conjunction with a nose high pitch attitude,
Interesting and unusual. I am aware of a tail scrape on a B777 landing due to the Vref speed manually inputted incorrectly. (Why do some people insist on manually knocking off a bit of weight for the descent and approach and typing in a revised landing weight instead of selecting the present weight figure which at worst will give you a 2 knot greater speed?)

My experiences of someone's first landing on type after a long flight is a tendency to under flare and a firm arrival. I wonder if the trainee on this flight flared late and continued to raise the nose as the wheels touched, possibly aided by a Captain rapidly increasing back pressure. I'd be interested in what the nose pitch was when the tail scraped. For a normal landing the nose is raised to no higher than 5 degrees and the tail would not scrape until at least 8 degrees pitch or so. An extended flare can lead to a tail strike but that would not give a firm landing.
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 12:00
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom View Post
Why is that interesting?
I guess it's just my natural curiosity.

YMMV
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 17:20
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Just saw her the other day at HKIA, still outside Haeco, but after 60 days there, she just landed at YYZ as AC 2328
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 03:53
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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What does a carrier like AC do with a pilot that caused that kind of of damage (or was at least in part responsible)?
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 05:51
  #28 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
YMMV
Dave, is seems quite typical of landing and bounce scrapes. The tailskid is mounted to protect the impact point against takeoff tailstrikes. With MLG oleos extended, the geometry is different.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 07:53
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by physicus View Post
What does a carrier like AC do with a pilot that caused that kind of of damage (or was at least in part responsible)?

Depends


We had a tailstrike event with a 777 on departure at my airline, there was extensive damage to the aircraft


In that case the crew went through some retraining in the sim and went back to the line


If either one of the Pilots had a ‘record’ of negative events there may have been a different outcome but management was very fair, obviously it wasn’t intentional so why throw away someone’s invaluable experience?


Of course it depends on the individual Airline
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 19:09
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
Dave, is seems quite typical of landing and bounce scrapes. The tailskid is mounted to protect the impact point against takeoff tailstrikes. With MLG oleos extended, the geometry is different.
Spot on. Pretty much applies to all the stretched Boeings.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 16:31
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Callsign Kilo View Post
Although the report notes that Air Canada’s SOP is to disengage the autopilot at 400 AGL.
Surely that cannot be an actual SOP? That sounds exceptionally prescriptive and in today's more enlightened environment of encouraging hand-flying/reduced levels of automation/raw data etc when appropriate for the prevailing conditions, it sounds almost draconian for a western airline and totally out of line with best practise.
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 06:11
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EI_DVM View Post
Surely that cannot be an actual SOP? That sounds exceptionally prescriptive and in today's more enlightened environment of encouraging hand-flying/reduced levels of automation/raw data etc when appropriate for the prevailing conditions, it sounds almost draconian for a western airline and totally out of line with best practise.
You're correct. Our FOM encourages hand flying i am not on the 777, but what the boys and girls do after being in the air for 16 hours I am not sure I am on the 320. Some pilots disengage pretty late. Others will turn everything off above 10,000 when appropriate. I subscribe to the later personally, I like flying the bus raw data, AP and A/THR off I feel more in the loop of current performance. Some others will take over at minimums and leave A/THR engaged.

Regarding what happens to said pilot, my understanding is the skipper was close to retirement so unfortunately this was his last landing. The PF will probably get further coaching and released back to line indoc (if not already having done so).
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 09:42
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Old 17th Feb 2019, 11:26
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Originally Posted by CanadianAirbusPilot View Post
Others will turn everything off above 10,000 when appropriate. I subscribe to the later personally, I like flying the bus raw data, AP and A/THR off I feel more in the loop of current performance.
See how many times you do that after doing a ULR flight. I'm tipping not even one.
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