PIA - fake pilots and cabin crew
It’s merely a measure of your “leaning ability” but there are other yardsticks which can be used
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it took me a year of hard study to get a ATPL In Europe 1979... it took me a week at the swimming pool to study the FAA ATPL... F27/bae146/B737/757/767/777 and still flying.I
I’ve survived not having a degree. It’s merely a measure of your “leaning ability” but there are other yardsticks which can be used. Such as IQ testing. Much as I hate the HR bollox it could be used if one has no degree or “college education”, whatever that is.... I think having passed ATPL exams is also an indicator. Certainly in Europe it used to be the case prior to EASA that the ATPL was equivalent to a first degree (EASA exams are easier) Or, as I’ve been told, you can just buy a degree off t’interweb.
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A lot has changed over the last 50mumble years, when I were a lad maybe 2 or 3 percent went to university. Nowadays anything that called itself a technical college now calls itself a university and degrees are everywhere. Has the level of intelligence changed ? Highly unlikely.
In reality the only real change is that the system now keeps youngsters in school for longer in order to keep them out of the jobs market to reduce the unemployment statistics.
In reality the only real change is that the system now keeps youngsters in school for longer in order to keep them out of the jobs market to reduce the unemployment statistics.
Is anyone on board able to inform me and other unwashed, why a degree is needed to operate an a/c??
You are born with ability. You don't learn ability, work ethic or aviation skills in a classroom.
I've known youngsters, ag pilots for e.g.,with no academic qualifications whatsoever, would be better pilots, with outstanding stick and rudder skills. More so I would imagine, than the vast majority of airline pilots out there today.
Operating the automatic equipment? I could take a 12 year old out of an amusement arcade that would be able to do the job just as good, as any of us, with minimal tuition..
You need to start young in this business. the younger the better. One of the above retired from ag flying at 30 after 10 years at it and finished his career on heavy 4 engine jets. Sitting in a lecture hall studying for something that has no relevance to aviation, can waste several years, young years when your ass could be strapped to a a/c seat.
You are born with ability. You don't learn ability, work ethic or aviation skills in a classroom.
I've known youngsters, ag pilots for e.g.,with no academic qualifications whatsoever, would be better pilots, with outstanding stick and rudder skills. More so I would imagine, than the vast majority of airline pilots out there today.
Operating the automatic equipment? I could take a 12 year old out of an amusement arcade that would be able to do the job just as good, as any of us, with minimal tuition..
You need to start young in this business. the younger the better. One of the above retired from ag flying at 30 after 10 years at it and finished his career on heavy 4 engine jets. Sitting in a lecture hall studying for something that has no relevance to aviation, can waste several years, young years when your ass could be strapped to a a/c seat.
Because the "suits" who decide who gets interviewed and hired SAY it's required; it's just that simple.
They'll have a rationale for this position (they're never without a rationale). It doesn't have to make sense in the real world because it's their game and their rules. Play their game or get out of the way of those who will. There are legions of those who will.
I assure you the degree requirement is merely one facet of the often illogical stance of the HR cubicle droids.
[I have two degrees...BFD
]
Well, I don't know much, but as a professor of electronics engineering technology (retired), I do know that I have seen more than my share of supposed electronics graduates from that part of the world that would have filled the lab with the smell of burning flesh if I hadn't stopped them turning on the soldering iron while they held the wrong end!
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What most of you seem to be misreading is they were referring to High School degrees not university degrees. When did you last meet a pilot who didn't have a high school certificate or diploma? Maybe an old-timer but not someone from the last few decades I bet.
We're mostly The Blind Men and the Elephant on such issues since the HRs are mute on the fine points of their criteria and the subjectivity that goes with them.
A few answers are offered to that question. They seem to use achieving a 4-year degree as an indication of one's ability to learn in a defined time frame and/or proof of one's sticktoitiveness.
All this while studiously ignoring all the other items on a CV that also prove the same thing...and often with more applicability to the job's realities.
They may think there's some image aspect to it but to whom are they trying to sell this image...the traveling public who don't give a rat's about any of this ?
But...their game/their rules. Hard fact of life despite what those in the trenches think.
A few answers are offered to that question. They seem to use achieving a 4-year degree as an indication of one's ability to learn in a defined time frame and/or proof of one's sticktoitiveness.
All this while studiously ignoring all the other items on a CV that also prove the same thing...and often with more applicability to the job's realities.
They may think there's some image aspect to it but to whom are they trying to sell this image...the traveling public who don't give a rat's about any of this ?
But...their game/their rules. Hard fact of life despite what those in the trenches think.
Well, I don't know much, but as a professor of electronics engineering technology (retired), I do know that I have seen more than my share of supposed electronics graduates from that part of the world that would have filled the lab with the smell of burning flesh if I hadn't stopped them turning on the soldering iron while they held the wrong end!
Having said that, I have also experienced the product of our own universities and met people that were totally out of their depth operating simple hand tools.
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It's a simple question with a simple answer.
Why do airlines require that pilots have degrees? Because right now they can. If the shortage hits them hard enough and they are no longer able to fill the flight deck we'll see what they do. Personally I know a lot of regional pilots in the States hoping that this happens, until it does I wouldn't bet on it because the major airlines still have candidates lining up down the street and around the corner.
As a question to the European pilots here, do cadets in Ab Initio programs need a prior degree or do the airlines track their progress throughout training to see if he or she will be a decent fit for them?
Why do airlines require that pilots have degrees? Because right now they can. If the shortage hits them hard enough and they are no longer able to fill the flight deck we'll see what they do. Personally I know a lot of regional pilots in the States hoping that this happens, until it does I wouldn't bet on it because the major airlines still have candidates lining up down the street and around the corner.
As a question to the European pilots here, do cadets in Ab Initio programs need a prior degree or do the airlines track their progress throughout training to see if he or she will be a decent fit for them?
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A big part of the reason why US companies often require college degrees is that the rules regarding what you can ask a potential employee have become so restrictive. Several years ago when my supervisor was screening people for an opening in my group, he wanted me to sit in on the interview. In order to be allowed to do that, I had to take a class on what I could say, ask, or do during the interview. Questions that you could ask about the interviewee's background were heavily restricted.
So, since you're not allowed to ask many of the questions that might actually demonstrate the person's suitability for the job, they require a degree. It's a poor substitute, but the HR types figure it's better than nothing.
But lying about your qualifications is a pretty good bet to get you fired if you're found out.
So, since you're not allowed to ask many of the questions that might actually demonstrate the person's suitability for the job, they require a degree. It's a poor substitute, but the HR types figure it's better than nothing.
But lying about your qualifications is a pretty good bet to get you fired if you're found out.
To expand the frame of reference, and support Dan Brown’s position, the US Army Warrant Officer Pilot program requires a high school diploma. Those young men and women fly aircraft like the Apache and the special ops versions of the CH-47 Chinook and UH-60 Blackhawk, at night, low level, in weather etc. Very sophisticated aircraft and operating in an uncontrolled, unfriendly environment, sometimes populated with unfriendly and armed people. They do just fine.
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A big part of the reason why US companies often require college degrees is that the rules regarding what you can ask a potential employee have become so restrictive. Several years ago when my supervisor was screening people for an opening in my group, he wanted me to sit in on the interview. In order to be allowed to do that, I had to take a class on what I could say, ask, or do during the interview. Questions that you could ask about the interviewee's background were heavily restricted.
So, since you're not allowed to ask many of the questions that might actually demonstrate the person's suitability for the job, they require a degree. It's a poor substitute, but the HR types figure it's better than nothing.
But lying about your qualifications is a pretty good bet to get you fired if you're found out.
So, since you're not allowed to ask many of the questions that might actually demonstrate the person's suitability for the job, they require a degree. It's a poor substitute, but the HR types figure it's better than nothing.
But lying about your qualifications is a pretty good bet to get you fired if you're found out.
the degree requirement was a carry-over from the "boys club" days of airline pilots being taken strictly from the military
That may be a factor for pilots - my post was directed more generically at US businesses in general. Many companies require college degrees as a prerequisite - even when the degree is completely unrelated to the position being filled - as a method to partially compensate for the inability to ask meaningful questions.