BHX ATC Down
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Near VTUU or EGPX
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Fat Controller.
You are ever so wrong .
There is no ATC required for Commercial operation into an airfield.
How do you operate into half or more of the no radar, no control zone fields allover the world?
Its called AFIS units ,Unicom, Company Fq etc.
Yes they have to have basic Fire and rescue services.
What is required in the UK now that could be much different, indeed.
You are ever so wrong .
There is no ATC required for Commercial operation into an airfield.
How do you operate into half or more of the no radar, no control zone fields allover the world?
Its called AFIS units ,Unicom, Company Fq etc.
Yes they have to have basic Fire and rescue services.
What is required in the UK now that could be much different, indeed.
ATC IS required for operations to continue, the procedures between the ATC centres and the airfield require it.
If the failure required movements to stop, as it did, that is what happens.
Full stop for this case.
I am fully aware of what happens elsewhere in the world.
Join Date: Feb 2013
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WWW
Even thinking of posting such a thing would get my post deleted!
But since You started: One has to wonder!
F Controller
The UK has indeed a few peculiar exceptions and additions to standard ICAO.
I had the pleasure to do an AirReg course and exam for 2 days in the spring of 1999 for a validation at Suckling Airways and then being stationed in Glasgow. Coming from Norway as a TRE and a JarOps Head of training in the same aircraft I have to say it was a treat!
Half of the stuff made no sense whatsoever. The other half, cool.
Also did FAA 3 months later, now there is a practical approach,,,,,
Even thinking of posting such a thing would get my post deleted!
But since You started: One has to wonder!
F Controller
The UK has indeed a few peculiar exceptions and additions to standard ICAO.
I had the pleasure to do an AirReg course and exam for 2 days in the spring of 1999 for a validation at Suckling Airways and then being stationed in Glasgow. Coming from Norway as a TRE and a JarOps Head of training in the same aircraft I have to say it was a treat!
Half of the stuff made no sense whatsoever. The other half, cool.
Also did FAA 3 months later, now there is a practical approach,,,,,
Join Date: Jun 1999
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Hotel Tango
Sir
Can You google TCAS for me!
Sir
Can You google TCAS for me!
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Do we know what actually failed yet? Was it the Radar Data Processing System, the Code-Callsign Data-Base, The Flight Plan System, or the Electronic Flight Progress Strip System? Was the failure at the EGBB end, the NATS end, or somewhere in-between?
Birmingham is an airport where the management has sweated the assets to appease their shareholders. The lack of investment and poor management was quite staggering.
Having been based there the standard of atc was at best mediocre and it was quite common to be turned onto the ILS at least 1500 feet high.
The farce over the runway extension and the continued non availability of the glideslope on 33 for what is now running into years is indicative of the shambles engenedered by the senior management. Whilst they were doing this they decided to close the short route through the hedge into the staff car park. Rather than put in a proper entrance the airport put in cctv to monitor anybody using this short route and take away ID cards of anybody caught using it.
I am not surprised that there has been an infrastructure failure, but I bet the last Chief Exec left with a nice bonus.
Having been based there the standard of atc was at best mediocre and it was quite common to be turned onto the ILS at least 1500 feet high.
The farce over the runway extension and the continued non availability of the glideslope on 33 for what is now running into years is indicative of the shambles engenedered by the senior management. Whilst they were doing this they decided to close the short route through the hedge into the staff car park. Rather than put in a proper entrance the airport put in cctv to monitor anybody using this short route and take away ID cards of anybody caught using it.
I am not surprised that there has been an infrastructure failure, but I bet the last Chief Exec left with a nice bonus.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Edinburgh
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Working at an airfield that has manual reversion and still trains for procedural approaches.
Average gap between successive arrivals under radar control - 2 minutes.
Average gap between successive arrivals under procedural control - 10 minutes
Number 3 in the stack after an indeterminate delay to go to manual reversion - EAT + 30 minutes.
Hope you guys have fuel planned for this!
Average gap between successive arrivals under radar control - 2 minutes.
Average gap between successive arrivals under procedural control - 10 minutes
Number 3 in the stack after an indeterminate delay to go to manual reversion - EAT + 30 minutes.
Hope you guys have fuel planned for this!
Join Date: Mar 2000
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That’s my point. You wouldn’t have.
Even with ATC contingency procedures in place for such an event, when it happens it is unexpected. The stacks would rapidly fill and the majority of the traffic would have to divert anyway due to fuel issues.
in a Radar environment a conservative 15 inbounds per hour can be easily dealt with. In a procedural environment the last aircraft could be looking at a 2 and a half hour delay.
Even with ATC contingency procedures in place for such an event, when it happens it is unexpected. The stacks would rapidly fill and the majority of the traffic would have to divert anyway due to fuel issues.
in a Radar environment a conservative 15 inbounds per hour can be easily dealt with. In a procedural environment the last aircraft could be looking at a 2 and a half hour delay.
Join Date: Feb 2011
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Don't agree with this whatsoever, Flying out of BHX in noisy purple things the standard of ATC is excellent as good as anywhere in the UK, just because you have a beef with the management don't drag our fellow professionals into it
I was given an incorrect departure clearance three times despite repeatedly querying it and it was only resolved on transfer to London. It was reported as an MOR by me. Following an investigation I had a reply from the head of safety of my airline, which was quite unusual as replies from ASR/MOR investigations were normally from an analyst , stating that he was very disappointed to read the poor response from the BHX ATC manager.
The reply from them failed to explain why the event had happened or what was going to be done about it, or any lessons they could learn from it.
He was very surprised at the lack of openness from a UK ATC unit.
Working at an airfield that has manual reversion and still trains for procedural approaches.
Average gap between successive arrivals under radar control - 2 minutes.
Average gap between successive arrivals under procedural control - 10 minutes
Average gap between successive arrivals under radar control - 2 minutes.
Average gap between successive arrivals under procedural control - 10 minutes
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Do like the "noisy purple things" comment though!!! Kudos!
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Edinburgh
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Holding over the beacon, if you are lucky get cleared for the procedure just as you go beacon outbound. 180 degree rate one turn ( 1 minute ) 10 mile outbound leg ( 3.5 minutes ), 180 degree rate one turn ( 1 minute ) on to 10 mile final ( 3.5 minutes )
based on an average ground speed of 180 knots ( 9 minutes ). By the time you take into account various ground speeds, winds, clearance for the approach when not yet at the beacon etc then simulated experience shows an average of 10 minutes.
According to the rules we could start the next aircraft on the procedure when the first is at 4 miles from touchdown but this time is usually used to launch departures.
