Norwegian Air Boeing 737MAX8 stuck in Iran

[J.O.]

Originally Posted by suninmyeyes

However if you try it in a simulator you will find that a single engine takeoff in a twin jet is quite feasible given a long enough runway and a pilot that understands the relationship between thrust, rudder and rudder fine steering.

Simulations are based on mathematical modelling of the real thing. I can pretty well guarantee that no one has done the work of capturing actual single engine takeoff data in a B737 to aid in programming a simulator for that scenario. If indeed you were successful at trying it, all you saw was a "best guess" performed by the software.

[Airbubba]

Some earlier single engine ferry discussion on PPRuNe in this 2005 thread:

A330 - One Engine Ferry?!?

[pilotmike]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

I'm not sure which is more worrying - a SLF asking if it can be done, or someone who flies for a living saying it's possible because it's like a 747 taking off on 3 engines.

tdracer didn't say that. Not for the first time, you like to misquote people in attempting to make your point. It is not clever.

[Sobelena]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
I'm not sure which is more worrying - a SLF asking if it can be done, or someone who flies for a living saying it's possible because it's like a 747 taking off on 3 engines.

tdracer didn't say that. Not for the first time, you like to misquote people in attempting to make your point. It is not clever.

Whilst DRUK is reasonably well informed in aviation matters, this is a niggling trait of his, not to mention his air of supremacy and contempt for posters when replying. Pity really.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by pilotmike

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

I'm not sure which is more worrying - a SLF asking if it can be done, or someone who flies for a living saying it's possible because it's like a 747 taking off on 3 engines.

tdracer didn't say that.

Correct, tdracer didn't say that, nor did I say that he/she had. You should read what I actually wrote more carefully.

As far as I know, tdracer is an engineer and does not fly for a living. As one might therefore expect, his/her posts invariably make a lot of sense and he/she always seems willing to debate technical subjects in a civilised manner.

Now can we get back on-topic, please?

[inducedrag]

Fly Dubai fly to SHZ with B737 they can use their help

[pilotmike]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

Correct, tdracer didn't say that, nor did I say that he/she had.

So why quote tdracer in your post which you make your criticisms if you weren't directing your remarks at him/her? It very much implies they are the target of your criticism, and is not clever. If your criticism referred to comments from someone else, why not quote them and the relevant comments instead? But as always, I'm sure you know best, and you'll probably be back to let us all know.

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by pilotmike

So why quote tdracer in your post which you make your criticisms if you weren't directing your remarks at him/her? It very much implies they are the target of your criticism, and is not clever. If your criticism referred to comments from someone else, why not quote them and the relevant comments instead? But as always, I'm sure you know best, and you'll probably be back to let us all know.

For the record, I did not take DR's post as a criticism, rather it was as an endorsement of my statement that an engine-out ferry of a twin would never be an approved procedure (unlike the 747) - hence the quote. DR is quite right that I'm not a pilot (never have been), but I worked as a propulsion engineer at Boeing for nearly 40 years (now retired) and hence know a bit about engine related issues.

Now back to your regularly schedule program...

I suspect getting the needed paperwork to send a replacement LEAP engine to Iran was caught up in the US government shutdown. The shutdown is now ended (at least temporarily) so maybe this can now get straightened out.

[Preemo]

Any news?
I just heard an NPR Planet Money podcast on this, they interviewed passengers, a lawyer specialising in sanctions, described the passenger's experience in Iran, and that they plane that evacuated them also needed to make an emergency landing.

No talk of a one engine getaway unfortunately :-)

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510289/planet-money

[4runner]

a lot of armchair consultants here. None of whom have flown a 73. There’s a reason the rudder is big. Vmcg. Google that and go play flight sim in your moms house some more. The pilots will be chasing girls and sippin’ Duty free whiskey while you’re doing that. Get back to us and let us know what you think. Cheers. DRUK, you’re ok in my book.

[golfyankeesierra]

Is it stil there?
8 weeks!!

[rog747]

TUI/TOM/BY blew an engine about a week ago on a new MAX flying from Egypt to UK and diverted to Crete - A new LEAP was flown out a few days ago and the MAX flew back to the UK yesterday.

Still took over a week but not like the sanctions debacle facing the D8 /DI MAX stranded in Iran for past 2 months.

[ATC Watcher]

2 months ! This fiasco is also sending the wrong message safety-wise , putting unnecessary pressure to crews by their Ops not to divert to Iran anymore in case of problems or even emergency, and possibly try to stretch it to divert in a neighboring place ( although Afghanistan is probably not much better). Putting political issues /sanctions on aircraft AOG after a diversion should not be there.

[CargoOne]

Originally Posted by ATC Watcher

2 months ! This fiasco is also sending the wrong message safety-wise , putting unnecessary pressure to crews by their Ops not to divert to Iran anymore in case of problems or even emergency, and possibly try to stretch it to divert in a neighboring place ( although Afghanistan is probably not much better). Putting political issues /sanctions on aircraft AOG after a diversion should not be there.

Iran and Afghanistan are not the same. There is little to none security risk in Iran but sanctions are there, and Afghanistan is opposite - no sanctions but security risk to passengers and crew is very high. But engine would have been changed long ago if DY have ended up in Kabul or Kandahar. All in all Kuwait is the right answer if you face situation like this.
I know from reliable source Boeing is pushing OFAC on this but it still can take a few month more.

[BluSdUp]

Politics erodes Safety!

ATC Watcher.
Spot on You are.
We need to get back to basics as per ICAO agreement, rules and recommendations.
We are in a sad state when Crew need to make political considerations before committing to an alternate in an Emergency.

Cargo one.
Yes, I would imagine that Mr Boeing is not happy with Washington on this one. I hope they push hard. ( Over the cliff he goes, sorry, could not be helped.)
The idea that I have to ask Donald were to bring my excellent Buck folding knife ( purchased in Canada exported to Norway with no export licence in 1993 ) does not appeal to me.
F35s sure,but taping up a busted MAX and getting it home to Oslo ASAP should trigger some RealPolitik executive orders.

BTW
The longer it sit there the more tempted I would be to have a look/see at all the fancy modern stuff inside it , if I was the top Spy Guy in Iran.
Just an observation.
Mind You Iran is adhering to the letter and intent of the old Nuclear agreement and are honoring any ICAO commitments in this case.
Anyway
It will be back before Easter, I bet.
Consider it a novel winter dry storage of excess aircraft.

[4runner]

Originally Posted by rog747

TUI/TOM/BY blew an engine about a week ago on a new MAX flying from Egypt to UK and diverted to Crete - A new LEAP was flown out a few days ago and the MAX flew back to the UK yesterday.

Still took over a week but not like the sanctions debacle facing the D8 /DI MAX stranded in Iran for past 2 months.

african countries love it when western aircraft break. They’ll charge 100% duty on the parts and that doesn’t include “handling” fees.

[the_stranger]

Originally Posted by 4runner

African countries love it when western aircraft break. They’ll charge 100% duty on the parts and that doesn’t include “handling” fees.

Just to be sure, you do know Crete isn't in Africa?

[EIFFS]

Originally Posted by BluSdUp

ATC Watcher.
Spot on You are.
We need to get back to basics as per ICAO agreement, rules and recommendations.
We are in a sad state when Crew need to make political considerations before committing to an alternate in an Emergency.

Cargo one.
Yes, I would imagine that Mr Boeing is not happy with Washington on this one. I hope they push hard. ( Over the cliff he goes, sorry, could not be helped.)
The idea that I have to ask Donald were to bring my excellent Buck folding knife ( purchased in Canada exported to Norway with no export licence in 1993 ) does not appeal to me.
F35s sure,but taping up a busted MAX and getting it home to Oslo ASAP should trigger some RealPolitik executive orders.

BTW
The longer it sit there the more tempted I would be to have a look/see at all the fancy modern stuff inside it , if I was the top Spy Guy in Iran.
Just an observation.
Mind You Iran is adhering to the letter and intent of the old Nuclear agreement and are honoring any ICAO commitments in this case.
Anyway
It will be back before Easter, I bet.
Consider it a novel winter dry storage of excess aircraft.

It should be back early mid March latest, the US shutdown hasn’t helped any, Norwegian continue to overfly Iran, no real change in guidance, the commander has the ultimate responsibility for passengers and crew, but should consider politics in considering where to divert, the QRH continues unchanged land at the nearest suitable airport.

Norwegians pilot management are in the main a practical bunch, you won’t be invited for tea no biscuits for flying a further 10-30 minutes with OEI and avoiding Iran, most of the guys doing these routes have ETOPS experience, the biggest practicality is explaining to ATC why you need to descend to FL230 but not diverting.

IMPO having the aircraft stuck in a country under sanctions might make it not suitable

[Airbubba]

NAX8921 is airborne out of Shiraz:

https://www.flightradar24.com/NAX8921/1f9675b0

[atakacs]

FL400. Pretty impressive on one engine...