Air Astana flight serious problems over Lisbon

[The_Steed]

Video of the landing:

You Tube

[India Four Two]

I've just spent a fascinating 90 minutes listening to the ATC recordings and I've put a summary below.

Very impressive considering all involved were non-native English speakers. I thought it commendable that Lisbon approach rapidly transferred all other traffic to another frequency. I thought the F-16 pilot's English was remarkably good, but I do feel that the pilot of 1388 was confused as to who he was talking to and the F-16 should have turned the transponder off, as he closed on 1388


LiveATC 1330Z:
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/lp...2018-1330Z.mp3

02:40 MAYDAY
11:30 First ditching statement
13:00 ATC offers "the river"
17:55 "Completely uncontrollable"
20:00 Request for VMC
21:50 6 POB "Completely uncontrollable. Flight control problem" Planning a sea ditching
23:55 ATC suggests southbound heading to better weather.
27:10 Confirming planning to ditch
29:10 Controller change

LiveATC 1400Z:
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/lp...2018-1400Z.mp3

04:50 "Improved our conditions" ?
06:42 "Request vectoring to the sea" Discussion about river and "weather below us"
09:30 Requested confirmation that they could reach the sea on present heading
11:50 Still planning ditching. "Completely uncontrollable"
15:45 "We are in thunderstorm now"
18:58 "In this heading, can we reach the sea?"
19:30 "There's a couple of F-16 fighters. They are flying your way, to assist you with your navigation". 1388 does not understand the transmission.
21:30 ATC points out a river dam.
24:21 "You have the F-16 fighters reaching your position now". No response.
25:50 Very stressed transmission
26:15 Transmission from F-16 c/s "Portuguese Air Defence"
27:05 "Cannot maintain heading". "Climbing and descending all the time"
28:48 F-16 transmission "Can you get a lock on me?" Probably talking to a military controller.
29:15 Very stressed transmission
30:30 "If you fly south or southwest, you'll reach the sea"

LiveATC 1430Z
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/lp...2018-1430Z.mp3

Initially some duplication from the previous tape

02:50 "Eastbound cannot take you to the sea". "Fly westbound"
04:02 F-16 "... maintain two miles"
04:40 Calls to and from F-16. 60 miles north, planning to intercept and offering assistance. 1388 confirms intention to ditch.
06:30 Request heading to sea for ditching
06:50 F-16 "Faro is Victor Mike Charlie. Confirm you are unable to reach Faro?" 1388 confirms ditching
09:05 "If you continue that heading, you have an aerodrome, civilian aerodrome, 13 miles"
10:58 "The maintenance officer from [?] will try and contact you on this frequency as well"
11:45 "You are flying away from the sea. You are flying into Spanish territory."
12:05 "You'll probably find better weather if you move further east"
"Aircraft is now controllable"
"Roger. Confirm intentions?"
12:30 "We need closest airport with good weather"
12:45 "You have aerodrome with good weather, south of your position 135 miles. Can you fly that?"
13:10 F-16 offering to intercept and guide to the aerodrome. 1388 accepts.
13:35 F-16 requests confirmation from Lisbon that Faro will be the diversion.
13:50 F-16 advises that Beja is a closer aerodrome, 70 miles south.
14:15 F-16 requests confirmation from Lisbon that Beja will be suitable.
14:30 Lisbon confirms Beja is suitable and 1388 is expected
15:40 1388 requests runway information at Beja
16:00 Lisbon asks the F-16 if he can escort 1388 to Beja. F-16 reports 19 miles to intercept and VMC
16:50 F-16 advises a turn to line up with Runway 19 at Beja
17:35 F-16 10 miles out, offers to formate and guide 1388
18:55 1388 confirms under control, repeats that they need an airport with good weather - indicates some issue with flight controls.
19:25 Lisbon passes Beja information
19:45 F-16 reports formating.
1388 requests F-16 transponder off due to TCAS
20:30 F-16 gives heading and altitude
21:55 1388 confirms they can see the F-16 but they would prefer control from ATC.
22:15 Lisbon suggests following the F-16
23:45 Lisbon advises 45 miles to Beja. Requests a call when visual.
24:00 1388 requests airport spelling again
24:40 F-16 requests maintain VMC and passes ILS information
26:30 Discussion about 19R
27:15 Lisbon advises 9 mile final
27:35 Lisbon passes Beja weather
28:50 Lisbon passing information, 23 miles from field but no recorded response.
30:50 Lisbon tranfers 1388 to Beja

[fox niner]

They should get a medal for this.

[theNotoriousPIC]

From the landing video it looks like the aircraft was flying in direct mode. Just because of the way it was twitching about on landing and the ground spoilers did not deploy. However the right thrust reverser deployed so no issue with hydraulics (assuming they deployed the left one as well.)

It will be very interesting the read the full report on this.

[JanetFlight]

Landing successfully only at third attempt FYI.

[ORICHETTI]

"Wonder what did that and how they regained control all of a sudden"

I have exactly the same question. I don´t know this plane but sounds strange situation. Hopefully in 1 year we will have a report.

[SigWit]

Originally Posted by ORICHETTI

"Wonder what did that and how they regained control all of a sudden"

I have exactly the same question. I don´t know this plane but sounds strange situation. Hopefully in 1 year we will have a report.

Well, being an Embraer 190 pilot myself, I think they probably turned it off and on again. That usually fixes any problem on the plane

[2dPilot]

VASAviation have it on YouTube (already) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIc8Rr-cKd8&t=329s

[meleagertoo]

Originally Posted by 2dPilot

VASAviation have it on YouTube (already) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIc8Rr-cKd8&t=329s

Bloody hell!
That recording is terrifying!

[Nomad2]

Embraer:

Every
Mechanical
Breakdown
Requires
An
Electrical
Reset.

No idea what happened here, but a fellow Broomstick Flyer offers his respect.
Great job guys.

Edit to add:
Air Astana have very high training standards. These guys were likely better equipped to deal with their situation than other E-190 pilots might have been.

Perhaps, this made the difference between the outcome that happened, and the outcome that could have happened.

Top marks.

[Smdts]

You can hear the bank angle warnings in the background around 10:45
Not a great day at work for them.

[ORICHETTI]

A lot of things went terribly wrong. How many time the pilot on the radio asks for a vector (15) ?
And who can explain why they where out of control for so many time and then suddenly they where able to fly and land?

[giggitygiggity]

Originally Posted by ORICHETTI

A lot of things went terribly wrong. How many time the pilot on the radio asks for a vector (15) ?
And who can explain why they where out of control for so many time and then suddenly they where able to fly and land?

They said they were IMC for a long time, if they had no attitude information they wouldn't know what was going on at all, once they became visual, perhaps they managed to stabilise the flight reasonably then and come up with a plan to get it down.

[VH-MLE]

I was a bit surprised there were no emergency services following the aircraft at the end of the landing roll - at least that I could see anyway...

[meleagertoo]

If they got into a degraded flight control law (eg something similar to A320 direct law) and were in IMC they could well end up in a pickle like that, all the more so if instrumentation was degraded too as might happen with a big electrical failure, only regaining control when in better visual conditions. Their situational awareness was so poor loss of instrumentation to a significant degree must be a strong contender. If they were in degraded f/c law on standby instruments - that's a tuly nasty place to be in an Airbus, and I imagine in any other type too.
No doubt we'll soon know.

[Loose rivets]

My mind's wide open on the actual cause but I added the dialogue into the equation when assessing their state of brain function. Stress may indeed have played a part in the continued repeating of the requests, but I'm suspicious that the crew did not tell the admirably calm ATC that they were not able to physically navigate towards the Atlantic, except by repeating the question. ATC in fact told them they were continuing to turn left, and the response to that was not normal, even taking into account language and stress. Of course, at that point they may well have been really fighting the aircraft, and may even have had the echoes of the Jakarta flight rattling around in their minds. But they want a big area to splash in, that they're determined about, but where a sheltered river would have given a much greater chance of survival at and after the ditching. However, changing horses on my bet again, they may well have been dutifully trying to keep the population safe thinking they were going to be throwing their charge at the water with very crude control and their minds going from two disparate but horrible scenarios.

So, deeply stressed or affected brains? All bets off now.

[Icarus2001]

From the landing video it looks like the aircraft was flying in direct mode

If they got into a degraded flight control law (eg something similar to A320 direct law)

I would like to hear from an Embraer 170/190 pilot as to whether they even have that.

They said they were IMC for a long time, if they had no attitude information they wouldn't know what was going on at al

You do know that all modern jet aircraft have a completely independent standby attitude reference system right? How long do you think they would last in IMC without attitude reference?

http://www.aviaddicts.com/wiki/ejet:iess

[giggitygiggity]

Originally Posted by Loose rivets

My mind's wide open on the actual cause but I added the dialogue into the equation when assessing their state of brain function. Stress may indeed have played a part in the continued repeating of the requests, but I'm suspicious that the crew did not tell the admirably calm ATC that they were not able to physically navigate towards the Atlantic, except by repeating the question. ATC in fact told them they were continuing to turn left, and the response to that was not normal, even taking into account language and stress. Of course, at that point they may well have been really fighting the aircraft, and may even have had the echoes of the Jakarta flight rattling around in their minds. But they want a big area to splash in, that they're determined about, but where a sheltered river would have given a much greater chance of survival at and after the ditching. However, changing horses on my bet again, they may well have been dutifully trying to keep the population safe thinking they were going to be throwing their charge at the water with very crude control and their minds going from two disparate but horrible scenarios.

So, deeply stressed or affected brains? All bets off now.

Stressed certainly, but I agree, if they had said they were unable to maintain headings or judge them, ATC would have been able to help in a very different way. I wondered if they keep turning in one direction unknowingly therefore can't know when to rollout towards the sea. Also wondered if they thought that they couldn't maintain a straight flight, at least the sea would give them the best option as they might have thought they'd be unable to line up with a runway. This is certainly going to be interesting, although I assume it will boil down to some maintenance mistakes and perhaps injudicious flight control tests before departure. I'm not blaming the crew but it is odd to suddenly lose those systems after departure when hydraulics are seemingly fine and the plane looks undamaged (according to the landing video).

[JanetFlight]

LPBJ-Beja for those unfamiliar its the official base of portuguese acmi outfit HiFly, where its based all their 330, 340, 345 and even the recent 380, so of course it has RFFS in this case given by Portuguese Air Force, a base shared with civilian company ANA-Vinci airports of Portugal.
For your info there was also some real tonneaux made by our Embraer as well, hence the injuries!!!
Also quoted from a member on other aviation board, seems HiFly Crew:
"It Was going back home after a C-check in Alverca.
Swapped aileron controls (so when a right input, the a/c would turn left and vice-versa). Only elevators, rudder and thrust available to control the aircraft. As far as I've heard from someone who talked to the crew when things were settled down on ground, no issues when the autopilot was connected, but as soon as they would disconnect it, the controls were lost everytime. One of the four tonneaux ended at around 4000ft on a 90º nose down attitude. Adding to these awkward conditions, the wheather here in Lisbon area have been awfull the whole day with pouring rain, heavy clouds and low ceiling, so they had no visual geographic references, plus they were unfamiliar with the terrain and there's where the F-16s came in, to guide the E190 to a safer place. After "learning" to control the plane, all calmed down a little bit, but they needed an airport with better weather/visual conditions and Beja was the best(first option was sunny Algarve's Faro), which is also in a sparsely populated (thus the lowest FR24 coverage, adding to the fact that the a/c doesn't have ADS-B and only shows up in MLAT) area so in case of a crash, the possibility of having victims on the ground was much lower.
On the first landing attempt, the aircraft wasn't well aligned to the runway so a go around was performed. On the second attempt they were a bit too high and went around again, before finally successfully landing on the third attempt. Of the 6 pob, two were taken to a local hospital with minor injuries and a third person, someone from the administration of Air Astana was reporting some heart issued ans was also taken to the hospital, which all three left by the beginning of the evening."

[Sikpilot]

Whatever it was that happened, they managed to land it and no one got hurt. Great job by the crew. The CVR will be very interesting to hear.