JAL pilot over the limit in London
So from you older pilots what do you do if you suspect your colleague has drunk alcohol?
Do you say "call in sick or I turn you in"?
Do you just turn them in?
Ignore?
What I find shocking is that it was the driver who reported it and not one of his colleagues. Is there some Omerta here that us SLF need to be worried about?
Do you say "call in sick or I turn you in"?
Do you just turn them in?
Ignore?
What I find shocking is that it was the driver who reported it and not one of his colleagues. Is there some Omerta here that us SLF need to be worried about?
The BBC article linked in Post #3 certainly thinks so...
Originally Posted by https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46062122
A Japanese pilot who was arrested at Heathrow Airport for being drunk has admitted being more than nine times the legal alcohol limit.
Katsutoshi Jitsukawa, 42, who works for Japan Airlines, was arrested on 28 October after failing a breath test.
Katsutoshi Jitsukawa, 42, who works for Japan Airlines, was arrested on 28 October after failing a breath test.
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and not one of his colleagues.
You certainly cant ignore your suspicion that a colleague is over the limit, otherwise you yourself can be charged with a crime:
A person charged with aiding and abetting or accessory is usually not present when the crime itself is committed, but he or she has knowledge of the crime before or after the fact, and may assist in its commission through advice, actions, or financial support.
A person charged with aiding and abetting or accessory is usually not present when the crime itself is committed, but he or she has knowledge of the crime before or after the fact, and may assist in its commission through advice, actions, or financial support.
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So from you older pilots what do you do if you suspect your colleague has drunk alcohol?
Do you say "call in sick or I turn you in"?
Do you just turn them in?
Ignore?
What I find shocking is that it was the driver who reported it and not one of his colleagues. Is there some Omerta here that us SLF need to be worried about?
Do you say "call in sick or I turn you in"?
Do you just turn them in?
Ignore?
What I find shocking is that it was the driver who reported it and not one of his colleagues. Is there some Omerta here that us SLF need to be worried about?
Have him call in sick, and report to the alcohol and drugs program incorporated by our company so the colleague can receive proper support and keep his job.
If he refuses to call in sick, turn him in. No way he is flying.
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This is a very difficult subject, in flight recently I was told that the cabin crew suspected one of their number had been drinking but was acting normally, I had not noticed anything unusual about this person when we checked in for the flight and getting the information just as we are on the final approach resulted in me deciding to go ahead and land ASAP.
I asked for the person to come to the cockpit after the Pax has left the aircraft and their breath did smell suspicious, I put this matter in the hands of the company management.
I asked for the person to come to the cockpit after the Pax has left the aircraft and their breath did smell suspicious, I put this matter in the hands of the company management.
Last edited by A and C; 4th Nov 2018 at 13:57.
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So from you older pilots what do you do if you suspect your colleague has drunk alcohol?
Do you say "call in sick or I turn you in"?
Do you just turn them in?
Ignore?
What I find shocking is that it was the driver who reported it and not one of his colleagues. Is there some Omerta here that us SLF need to be worried about?
Do you say "call in sick or I turn you in"?
Do you just turn them in?
Ignore?
What I find shocking is that it was the driver who reported it and not one of his colleagues. Is there some Omerta here that us SLF need to be worried about?
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Not first , not last .
He had been due to be part of a crew flying a Japan Airlines (JAL) flight JL44 to Tokyo but failed a breath test 50 minutes before the departure time.
The Boeing 777 aircraft took off after a 69-minute delay.
- Maybe he went to the toilet on the way to the plane, BUT fair play to the Bus Driver should be promote.
The Boeing 777 aircraft took off after a 69-minute delay.
- Maybe he went to the toilet on the way to the plane, BUT fair play to the Bus Driver should be promote.
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Whatever happened to the Pilot from BA who was reported as being 'drunk' before departing ARN about 10 or 15 years ago? Apparently he was sacked. Was there a prosecution - and if so what was the result?
It's a long time ago but it seems that at the time all the press were reporting that the pilot was drunk - and yet I can find no news of a prosecution. Is it possible that the authorities found that blood test results indicated the pilot was not actually 'drunk', or was it possible that the authorities somehow 'messed up' or 'lost' the tests.
If not prosecuted, or if prosecuted and found not guilty then it would seem unjust that the pilot was sacked.. I believe that because of the uncertainty the pilot was sacked because he had 'brought the company into disrepute'. Is that so?
Interesting stuff.
Kind regards
Exeng
It's a long time ago but it seems that at the time all the press were reporting that the pilot was drunk - and yet I can find no news of a prosecution. Is it possible that the authorities found that blood test results indicated the pilot was not actually 'drunk', or was it possible that the authorities somehow 'messed up' or 'lost' the tests.
If not prosecuted, or if prosecuted and found not guilty then it would seem unjust that the pilot was sacked.. I believe that because of the uncertainty the pilot was sacked because he had 'brought the company into disrepute'. Is that so?
Interesting stuff.
Kind regards
Exeng
You lost your job at BA but kept your licence and kept flying, quite a result if you ask me. I would be thanking my lucky star if I was you. You where treated with a LOT more compassion and consideration than many people would advocate in this site
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Whatever happened to the Pilot from BA who was reported as being 'drunk' before departing ARN about 10 or 15 years ago? Apparently he was sacked. Was there a prosecution - and if so what was the result?
It's a long time ago but it seems that at the time all the press were reporting that the pilot was drunk - and yet I can find no news of a prosecution. Is it possible that the authorities found that blood test results indicated the pilot was not actually 'drunk', or was it possible that the authorities somehow 'messed up' or 'lost' the tests.
If not prosecuted, or if prosecuted and found not guilty then it would seem unjust that the pilot was sacked.. I believe that because of the uncertainty the pilot was sacked because he had 'brought the company into disrepute'. Is that so?
Interesting stuff.
Kind regards
Exeng
It's a long time ago but it seems that at the time all the press were reporting that the pilot was drunk - and yet I can find no news of a prosecution. Is it possible that the authorities found that blood test results indicated the pilot was not actually 'drunk', or was it possible that the authorities somehow 'messed up' or 'lost' the tests.
If not prosecuted, or if prosecuted and found not guilty then it would seem unjust that the pilot was sacked.. I believe that because of the uncertainty the pilot was sacked because he had 'brought the company into disrepute'. Is that so?
Interesting stuff.
Kind regards
Exeng
In sum:
Neither the lack of a conviction nor the lack of a prosecution is proof of innocence.
A company is not a criminal court, so employee infractions do not have to be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt."
A company is not a court at all, a court's rules of evidence do not apply, so a company's decision may be based on information which a court wouldn't be allowed to consider.
Stack those together and it's neither remarkable nor outrageous that an employee might be dismissed in an incident that did not result in a criminal conviction.
Last edited by A Squared; 5th Nov 2018 at 12:26.
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Par for the course in Korea and Japan.
This happens a lot more often than is reported. It is a serious problem and I've tried to do my part in reducing it through some of the training I do for those that utilize my services.
East Asia has a serious drinking problem and when you mix it in with the Korean and Japanese culture of "Whatever the boss says and does is never wrong" it is a recipe for disaster.
This happens a lot more often than is reported. It is a serious problem and I've tried to do my part in reducing it through some of the training I do for those that utilize my services.
East Asia has a serious drinking problem and when you mix it in with the Korean and Japanese culture of "Whatever the boss says and does is never wrong" it is a recipe for disaster.
Thread Starter
Par for the course in Korea and Japan.
This happens a lot more often than is reported. It is a serious problem and I've tried to do my part in reducing it through some of the training I do for those that utilize my services.
East Asia has a serious drinking problem and when you mix it in with the Korean and Japanese culture of "Whatever the boss says and does is never wrong" it is a recipe for disaster.
This happens a lot more often than is reported. It is a serious problem and I've tried to do my part in reducing it through some of the training I do for those that utilize my services.
East Asia has a serious drinking problem and when you mix it in with the Korean and Japanese culture of "Whatever the boss says and does is never wrong" it is a recipe for disaster.
Japan tends not to have rules / regulations / laws for things where there is a belief that everyone involved will naturally do the right thing. That's great, right up until they discover it isn't true. And so now we hear that the Japanese government is rushing in new regulations concerning enforcement of pilot sobriety...
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Originally Posted by exeng 
Whatever happened to the Pilot from BA who was reported as being 'drunk' before departing ARN about 10 or 15 years ago? Apparently he was sacked. Was there a prosecution - and if so what was the result?
It's a long time ago but it seems that at the time all the press were reporting that the pilot was drunk - and yet I can find no news of a prosecution. Is it possible that the authorities found that blood test results indicated the pilot was not actually 'drunk', or was it possible that the authorities somehow 'messed up' or 'lost' the tests.
If not prosecuted, or if prosecuted and found not guilty then it would seem unjust that the pilot was sacked.. I believe that because of the uncertainty the pilot was sacked because he had 'brought the company into disrepute'. Is that so?
Interesting stuff.
Kind regards
Exeng
Whatever happened to the Pilot from BA who was reported as being 'drunk' before departing ARN about 10 or 15 years ago? Apparently he was sacked. Was there a prosecution - and if so what was the result?
It's a long time ago but it seems that at the time all the press were reporting that the pilot was drunk - and yet I can find no news of a prosecution. Is it possible that the authorities found that blood test results indicated the pilot was not actually 'drunk', or was it possible that the authorities somehow 'messed up' or 'lost' the tests.
If not prosecuted, or if prosecuted and found not guilty then it would seem unjust that the pilot was sacked.. I believe that because of the uncertainty the pilot was sacked because he had 'brought the company into disrepute'. Is that so?
Interesting stuff.
Kind regards
Exeng
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Some regulatory authorities, but not all, won't specify a cut-off time for drinking, only that it is an offence to report for duty when unfit due to alcohol or drug consumption, so a real bender at lunchtime can still leave you unfit for most of the following day. Companies can/do give a cut-off time for drinking in their OM, eight to twelve hours seems the most common and even if no state, federal or country laws are broken, (so no prosecution), an individual can still be dismissed for breaching the company OM.
India is one country that has a countrywide law forbidding drink within twelve hours of reporting for duty and I remember a case where the hotel were asked to produce the room service receipts to establish just what time last drinks were ordered. Moral of that story is pay cash and tip well!
India is one country that has a countrywide law forbidding drink within twelve hours of reporting for duty and I remember a case where the hotel were asked to produce the room service receipts to establish just what time last drinks were ordered. Moral of that story is pay cash and tip well!
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If I recall correctly, the incident happened in early 2003 and the pilot was dismissed following a disciplinary hearing. Whatever the grounds for dismissal, if an employee deviates from the employer's standards or contractual requirements I guess the company can terminate employment - assuming disciplinary procedures are applied correctly. The law regarding limits on breath/blood-alcohol levels for aviation workers in the UK was introduced around mid-2003, hence at the time of the event no law was broken (well, not as a result of specific alcohol levels in the body, anyway) and so nothing to prosecute.
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And so now we hear that the Japanese government is rushing in new regulations concerning enforcement of pilot sobriety...
The rules were/are already in force. It's not a matter of doing things because it's the right thing to do. The rules and regulations concerning alcohol and flying duties are there in black and white and this pilot disobeyed them. Will it be just him who is punished? Of course not; that is not the Japanese way.
The Japanese seem absolutely incapable of dealing with the actual trouble-makers and, instead, apply blanket punishments and restrictions to everyone......just in case. The recent ANA manager is a very good case in point. He'd had a few wines and accidentally sat on a woman who was asleep in her lie-flat bed, believing it was his seat. Nothing deliberate. He wasn't wandering the place legless, just a genuine mistake. But, of course, he was considered 'drunk; and instantly fired and now ALL ANA Group employees are banned from consuming alcohol on ANA flights, including in the lounges, even if they are on full fare commuting tickets. All of this just so ANA can turn round and show how they have dealt with such disgraceful behaviour as shown by the manager for sitting in the wrong seat
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I've heard the HIMS (Home) people talk about some internet device that can be used to demonstrate compliance with flightcrew alcohol restrictions at international outstations. Not sure if it can be used for random tests overseas for U.S. crewmembers not in the HIMS program though. Traditionally you couldn't be tested randomly by the airline outside the U.S. However, the airline or airport staff could report you to the local authorities for testing if you showed up drunk. Unfortunately, that press-to-test has been done many times. 
Japan Airlines pilots failed alcohol tests 19 times since since August 2017 causing 12 flight delays
November 15, 2018Japan Airlines pilots have failed breathalyzer alcohol tests on 19 occasions since August 2017, causing 12 domestic flight delays due to pilot switches, JAL officials have revealed to the Mainichi Shimbun.
The major airline introduced a new type of detector for in-house checks that month. The revelation comes on the heels of the arrest of a JAL co-pilot in London by British police in October this year for allegedly arriving for duty on a flight to Haneda Airport in Tokyo with alcohol levels above the legal limit.
As the co-pilot had never failed an alcohol check on the old type of breathalyzer, it is possible that deceiving the device was rampant among some pilots at the airline.
According the company, the cause of the 12 delays was announced as “crew health conditions,” and no mention was made about their breath alcohol levels. JAL, which is scheduled to have a press conference on Nov. 16 to reveal countermeasures to curb excessive drinking by pilots, will be hard pressed to explain the delayed flights in detail.
Current JAL regulations ban drinking within 12 hours of a flight, and obligate pilots to undergone breathalyzer tests before flying. In August last year, the airline introduced a new type of detector that checks breath blown through a straw, and records data via an internet connection.
In response to the London incident, JAL checked the stored data to find that 19 cases exceeded the alcohol limit of 0.1 milligrams per 1 liter of exhalation, resulting in 12 flight delays.
(Japanese original by Norihito Hanamure, City News Department)
The major airline introduced a new type of detector for in-house checks that month. The revelation comes on the heels of the arrest of a JAL co-pilot in London by British police in October this year for allegedly arriving for duty on a flight to Haneda Airport in Tokyo with alcohol levels above the legal limit.
As the co-pilot had never failed an alcohol check on the old type of breathalyzer, it is possible that deceiving the device was rampant among some pilots at the airline.
According the company, the cause of the 12 delays was announced as “crew health conditions,” and no mention was made about their breath alcohol levels. JAL, which is scheduled to have a press conference on Nov. 16 to reveal countermeasures to curb excessive drinking by pilots, will be hard pressed to explain the delayed flights in detail.
Current JAL regulations ban drinking within 12 hours of a flight, and obligate pilots to undergone breathalyzer tests before flying. In August last year, the airline introduced a new type of detector that checks breath blown through a straw, and records data via an internet connection.
In response to the London incident, JAL checked the stored data to find that 19 cases exceeded the alcohol limit of 0.1 milligrams per 1 liter of exhalation, resulting in 12 flight delays.
(Japanese original by Norihito Hanamure, City News Department)
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46231780
This also has the above statistics of 19 infringements and 12 delays, and later:
Japan Airlines will implement a series of measures as a result of the recent breaches.
These include new breathalyser systems at overseas airports and introducing penalties "for flight crew violating the regulated alcohol concentration level".
The new systems are already in place at Heathrow and domestic airports in Japan, the spokesperson said.
They will be introduced at other airports on 19 November.
Pilots will also be prohibited from consuming alcohol in the 24 hours prior to reporting for a flight from Japan, the firm said.
This also has the above statistics of 19 infringements and 12 delays, and later:
Japan Airlines will implement a series of measures as a result of the recent breaches.
These include new breathalyser systems at overseas airports and introducing penalties "for flight crew violating the regulated alcohol concentration level".
The new systems are already in place at Heathrow and domestic airports in Japan, the spokesperson said.
They will be introduced at other airports on 19 November.
Pilots will also be prohibited from consuming alcohol in the 24 hours prior to reporting for a flight from Japan, the firm said.