Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Indonesian aircraft missing off Jakarta

Wikiposts
Search
Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Indonesian aircraft missing off Jakarta

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 25th Dec 2018, 15:40
  #2061 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Maintenance Lapse Identified as Initial Problem Leading to Lion Air Crash - WSJ

A Wall Street Journal article with a report of faulty 'airspeed sensor' calibration.

Maintenance Lapse Identified as Initial Problem Leading to Lion Air Crash

Investigators zero in on replacement of airspeed sensor in probe of Indonesian airliner’s fatal plunge

By Andy Pasztor in Los Angeles andBen Otto in Jakarta, Indonesia
Dec. 25, 2018 7:00 a.m. ET

Crash investigators have concluded preliminarily that improper calibration of an airspeed sensor during maintenance touched off the sequence of events that led to October’s fatal Lion Air jetliner crash in Indonesia, according to people familiar with the details. The conclusion is subject to further analysis, these people said, but it is the firmest indication so far that a suspected maintenance lapse was the initial misstep that ended with the months-old Boeing Co. 737 MAX aircraft plunging into the Java Sea, killing all...


https://www.wsj.com/articles/maintenance-lapse-identified-as-initial-problem-leading-to-lion-air-crash-11545739204
Airbubba is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2018, 15:52
  #2062 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,226
Received 14 Likes on 8 Posts
I thought it was an AoA vane (sensor), not pitot. Not that it matters much - bad data confuses "hidden" trim automation > results in strange aircraft behavior in supposedly manual flight > LOCA
pattern_is_full is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2018, 16:14
  #2063 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Dundee
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Really?

What airspeed "sensor" requires "calibration" post fit?

Requires testing, yes.
weemonkey is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2018, 16:14
  #2064 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Area 51
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This was already posted in Tech Log a few hours ago.
FlyXLsa is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2018, 17:01
  #2065 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida and wherever my laptop is
Posts: 1,350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full
I thought it was an AoA vane (sensor), not pitot. Not that it matters much - bad data confuses "hidden" trim automation > results in strange aircraft behavior in supposedly manual flight > LOCA
Find a WSJ reporter who understands what an AoA vane is.
I think you will find they meant that the AoA vane was incorrectly calibrated. That would certainly fit with the symptoms of the crash flight.
Ian W is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2018, 17:11
  #2066 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Bali H'ai
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Boeing B*ll Sh*t

They failed to advise the pilot community of the instability of the 737 Max 8

Murder she said!
Sultan Ismail is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2018, 17:13
  #2067 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: London/Fort Worth
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not sure about the 737MAX but on the 737NG it is not mandatory to carry out a test of the newly installed sensor.
BAengineer is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 00:42
  #2068 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Lion Air CVR Search Called Off

Not 2018 accident investigation:



Lion Air ends search for CVR from 737 MAX crash | Safety content from ATWOnline
aterpster is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 01:59
  #2069 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 487
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From the ATW article

Although government agencies typically fund search operations after a crash, the Indonesian Ministry of Transportation said in December it would only fund the investigation process while Lion Air would cover the cost of the CVR search.
In what world does an airline call off the search for critical data relating to one of its own accidents?

Doesn't this development also call into question the integrity and diligence of the Indonesian MOT?
Zeffy is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 02:53
  #2070 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 68
Posts: 4,407
Received 180 Likes on 88 Posts
The search for the CVR isn't ending, but Lion Air will no longer be leading (or presumably paying for) the search.
tdracer is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 05:14
  #2071 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Earth
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'd think Boeing would really want to find it...
flensr is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 14:00
  #2072 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Those that want the CVR need to pay for the search

The Governments involved should define the need (Airworthiness)

Curiosity is not always afforable
lomapaseo is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2019, 15:14
  #2073 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 8,401
Received 361 Likes on 210 Posts
Originally Posted by Zeffy
In what world does an airline call off the search for critical data relating to one of its own accidents?

Doesn't this development also call into question the integrity and diligence of the Indonesian MOT?
In Indonesia - the Govt doesn't have much money and so they can only pay so much - right now they're probably prioritizing the Krakatoa tsunami victims who are at least alive - in Indonesia there's always another disaster about to happen that requires funds...................
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2019, 00:50
  #2074 (permalink)  
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Asturias56
In Indonesia - the Govt doesn't have much money and so they can only pay so much - right now they're probably prioritizing the Krakatoa tsunami victims who are at least alive - in Indonesia there's always another disaster about to happen that requires funds...................
Point well taken. Boeing is a VERY important business in the United States. The U.S. government should pony up to continue the search for the CVR, Surely, the executive branch has a "flush fund" for such events (government shutdown notwithstanding), I suspect the chair of the NTSB is quite unhappy, for he is honest and an absolute expert.
aterpster is offline  
Old 8th Jan 2019, 12:15
  #2075 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Area 51
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Search for the CVR resumed.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-in...-idUKKCN1P2066

NTSC Continues Lion Air JT-610 CVR Search
http://mediaindonesia.com/read/detail/209161-knkt-lanjutkan-pencarian-cvr-lion-air-jt-610
(Google Chrome Translation)
"A KNKT source, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters the team will have seven days using the ship KRI Spica to find the CVR..."

The National Transportation Safety Committee (NTSC) collaborates with the Navy's Hydrographic and Oceanographic Center (Pushidrosal) to return to search for cockpit voice recorders Lion Air JT-610 PK-LQP (CVR) which crashed in Tanjung Karawang waters some time ago.

Pushidrosal deployed KRI Spica-934 which departed from the Jakarta International Container Terminal (JICT) Pier 2, Tanjung Priok Port, Tuesday (1/8).

The departure of the Hydro-Oceanographic survey vessel under the guidance of the Pushidrosal was released by the Head of Regional Police Laksda TNI Harjo Susmoro and the Chair of the NTSC Soerjanto Tjahjono and the main officials of the two institutions.

Kapushidrosal in his written statement, said, the departure of KRI Spica-934 which has underwater equipment with advanced technology is to continue to look for the existence of CVR which until now has not been found with a complete tool such as Multibeam Echosounder (MBES), Sub Bottom Profiling (SBP) , Magnetometer, Side Scan Sonar, ADCP, and HIPAP equipment that can detect signals from the black box of Lion JT-610.

"In addition to the equipment, KRI Spica-934 also brought 55 crew members, 9 NTSC personnel, 18 Navy divers, and 6 Scientists," he said.

Meanwhile, the Chair of the NTSC Soerjanto Tjahjono said that the NTSC requested Pushidrosal's assistance with the latest equipment to look for the CVR's existence.

With all the power available, KRI Spica, which is commanded by Marine Lt. Col. (P) Hengky Iriawan, has time to look for the CVR Lion Air flight number JT-610 for 15 days, given the signal that CVR emits for 90 days.

At present the remaining remaining time is around 15 days left, since the Lion Air plane crashed in Karawang waters on October 29, 2018.

"We will focus on searching 5 x 5 meters wide, around the point where CVR is estimated. With all our efforts and prayers, we hope that the CVR can be found following the discovery of a flight data recorder (FDR) some time ago to complete the investigation into the cause. "The fall of Lion Air is certain," said Kapushidrosal. (OL-1)

Last edited by FlyXLsa; 8th Jan 2019 at 15:30. Reason: Added new article
FlyXLsa is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 03:21
  #2076 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Lion Air JT610 Cockpit Voice Recorder Recovered

Reports in Indonesian media that the CVR has been found.



https://kumparan.com/@kumparannews/t...36351341563155
Airbubba is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 03:50
  #2077 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
An update in English:

Lion Air JT-610’s missing cockpit voice recorder found in waters near crash site

By Coconuts Jakarta Jan. 14, 2019

Indonesian authorities this morning found the cockpit voice recorder (CVR), a crucial missing piece in the investigation of Lion Air flight JT-610, which crashed into the Java Sea in October.

The CVR was found in waters off the coast of Karawang, West Java, near the plane’s crash site.

“The CVR of Lion Air JT-610 was found at 09:10 Jakarta time [0210Z - Airbubba], 8 meters below the seafloor, or 30 meters deep,” said Indonesian Navy Spokesman Colonel Liutenant Agung Nugroho this morning,
as quoted by Detik. The CVR is now being transported by boat to an Indonesian Navy base in Pondok Dayung, North Jakarta.

Previously, search parties recovered the plane’s flight data recorder (FDR), which makes up one half of the “black box” — the other being the CVR — both of which may prove crucial in determining the cause of the crash.

The preliminary crash report from Indonesia’s transport safety agency suggested that pilots struggled to control the plane’s anti-stalling system immediately before the crash.
Investigators also found that the Lion Air jet should have been grounded over a recurrent technical problem before its final journey, but have not settled on an official cause for the accident.

A lawsuit filed in Chicago blames Boeing for the deadly crash,
claiming the manufacturer’s airplane was “unreasonably dangerous.”

The Boeing 737 Max jet — one of the world’s newest and most advanced commercial planes — plunged into the Java Sea on October 29 shortly after taking off from capital Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang city, killing all 189 on board. A final crash report is likely to be filed this year.

With additional reporting by AFP
Airbubba is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 04:16
  #2078 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: halifax
Age: 58
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Time and an timely manner

I am hoping the long salt water immersion didn't ruin the recording(s) and we get to see the transcripts in a timely manner.
Certainly think this will put the spotlight on the failing(s) in this devastating and sad accident.
Back door is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 04:33
  #2079 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 68
Posts: 4,407
Received 180 Likes on 88 Posts
Originally Posted by Back door
I am hoping the long salt water immersion didn't ruin the recording(s) and we get to see the transcripts in a timely manner.
Certainly think this will put the spotlight on the failing(s) in this devastating and sad accident.
I'm pretty confident that the recorder will be just fine. If there is a silver lining to an accident with a brand new aircraft, it's that it has brand new recorders - and the new solid state recorders are vastly better than the older models.
A month or two in ~150 ft. deep salt water is a cake walk compared to what the latest generation of recorders are designed for.
tdracer is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2019, 04:55
  #2080 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SFO
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The CVR of Lion Air JT-610 was found at 09:10 Jakarta time [0210Z - Airbubba], 8 meters below the seafloor, or 30 meters deep,” said Indonesian Navy Spokesman Colonel Liutenant Agung Nugroho
Assuming the CVR was in the tail, locating it 8 metres below the seabed reinforces the vertical speed of impact.
Also assuming no beacon signal for weeks, it is pretty impressive that they found it.
I am interested to know how they went about the search.
simon001 is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.