EasyJet to transfer 1400 pilots licence from UK to Austria as a precaution to brexit
The cost of EASA will increase slightly for the 27 remaining members, which will be no reason for them to quit the EU or EASA. The common view in the UK seems to be that the EU will somehow cease to function without it. Challenging? Yes. Up until now the EU 27 are remarkably unified in their postion towards Brexit, though...
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Is it not going to be ever so simple, again, like in the old days ? My UK licence authorised me to fly UK registered aircraft, anywhere in the world. Forget all this JAA , EASA , nonsense. If I wanted to get a job in the USA,I would need a FAA licence to fly N registered aircraft. I , one time , obtained a one-off FAA validation for ferry work or delivery but that was it. Want the licence ? Do the full ground-school and all the exams. We did the same to all others. Want the Uk Licence ? Do all the groundschool & writtens.
When Air Europe went to the wall, we were training the Italian division. But to fly UK registered aircraft, (AE-UK) the AE-Italians had to do all the writtens. Mamamia, poor devils ! They were a lot kinder to us when a select few were given jobs in AE Italy after the AE-Uk demise. We just had to do Air Law but that was nodded & winked away. Quickly, we were flying Italian Registered aircraft on UK licences with Italian Validation. My prized Uk licence was validated for Belgian registered aircraft for a Belgian job. Belgian ATPL given with no requirement for exams. In Holland, Dutch law was required. Transavia gave us a one week course, Dutch Law exam ( I failed and an Oral was required...but that's another story....), passed & given a Dutch validation to fly Dutch registered aircraft all over the world. Finally, Oman just looked at my admired Uk licences and I was quickly ( we all were) given Oman ATPL to fly Oman Registered aircraft, all over the world. That was GulfAir. When the Bahrainis introduced their own CAA and Bahrain registered aircraft, Bahrain ATPL was awarded on verification of the Oman Licence. There was never a validation on the UK Licence but an issue of the local licence on presentation of the Uk one. See how easy it is and has nothing to do with geographical airspace..
Post Brixit,let's just get on with a UK CAA/ARB and fly UK registered aircraft anywhere in the world. It really is that simple. Should you want to fly foreign registered aircraft, you would need the issue of that Country's licence either by validation of the Uk licence or whatever they require.
Oh just remembered, AE casualties who secured employment in Japan had to do the full Jap ATPL. Those who went to Condor, equally, full German ATP. Blimey, made mu Dutch Oral quite a pleasant experience !
When Air Europe went to the wall, we were training the Italian division. But to fly UK registered aircraft, (AE-UK) the AE-Italians had to do all the writtens. Mamamia, poor devils ! They were a lot kinder to us when a select few were given jobs in AE Italy after the AE-Uk demise. We just had to do Air Law but that was nodded & winked away. Quickly, we were flying Italian Registered aircraft on UK licences with Italian Validation. My prized Uk licence was validated for Belgian registered aircraft for a Belgian job. Belgian ATPL given with no requirement for exams. In Holland, Dutch law was required. Transavia gave us a one week course, Dutch Law exam ( I failed and an Oral was required...but that's another story....), passed & given a Dutch validation to fly Dutch registered aircraft all over the world. Finally, Oman just looked at my admired Uk licences and I was quickly ( we all were) given Oman ATPL to fly Oman Registered aircraft, all over the world. That was GulfAir. When the Bahrainis introduced their own CAA and Bahrain registered aircraft, Bahrain ATPL was awarded on verification of the Oman Licence. There was never a validation on the UK Licence but an issue of the local licence on presentation of the Uk one. See how easy it is and has nothing to do with geographical airspace..
Post Brixit,let's just get on with a UK CAA/ARB and fly UK registered aircraft anywhere in the world. It really is that simple. Should you want to fly foreign registered aircraft, you would need the issue of that Country's licence either by validation of the Uk licence or whatever they require.
Oh just remembered, AE casualties who secured employment in Japan had to do the full Jap ATPL. Those who went to Condor, equally, full German ATP. Blimey, made mu Dutch Oral quite a pleasant experience !
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The CAA's planning assumptions for a "non-negotiated EU exit" are here: https://www.caa.co.uk/our-work/about-us/eu-exit/ and include:
- There is no mutual recognition agreement between the EU and the UK for aviation licences, approvals and certificates.
- UK issued licences and approvals (issued when the UK was an EASA member) will continue to have validity under UK law but will no longer be recognised by EASA for use on EASA Member State-registered aircraft.
Of course there may still be a negotiated exit deal, despite current efforts by a bunch of politicians to force a "No Deal" exit.
Perhaps the fact that there are currently no "UK licences", only UK-issued EASA licences...
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Let's say I am an American Airline pilot based in Dallas. My U.S. ATP is valid for me to fly to any AAL station in the world (and authorized alternate), provided I have the requisite training from AAL.
Why should this situation be different?
Why should this situation be different?
...but only on an aircraft registered in the US, and you can’t operate from one outstation to another.
For EZY pilots based in the UK it means that they can no longer operate W-patterns, triangles or intra-European flights if the U.K. stops being an EASA member state. Also, half the fleet of aircraft is EASA registered and the other half in the U.K. That complicates planning significantly.
For EZY pilots based in the UK it means that they can no longer operate W-patterns, triangles or intra-European flights if the U.K. stops being an EASA member state. Also, half the fleet of aircraft is EASA registered and the other half in the U.K. That complicates planning significantly.
Last edited by Longhitter; 17th Sep 2018 at 06:05.
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It is of course, as the US is just one country, the EASA states are currently 28 different countries. As EU law in this case supersedes national law there is only one legal kind of license available, the EASA license. And that allows a pilot (or mechanic) licensed that way to operate on airplanes registered in any of those 28 states. When they UK leaves that union without a deal, they will also leave all over 700 treaties that binds the EU including the one on EASA and EASA licensing. Which means, that quite legally the current licenses won't be legal anymore (which is why the CAA prepares to re-issue them as UK ones), and of course holders of UK issued EASA licenses won't be able to work outside of the UK anymore except on UK aircraft as an outstation. As most larger EU low cost carriers are pan-european trans-national airlines that affects them quite a bit, after all in the EU it is possible to work everywhere in those 28 countries on any of their aircraft with the full rights of freedom. And as a consequence easyJet is in the process of splitting the airline into an EU part, a UK part and already has a Swiss part as switzerland follows most of the EU regulations (including membership in EASA), but is not a member of the EU.To prepare that they have so far transferred something over 100 aircraft to an EU registry (they did choose austria, as the regulator is a commercial company and very easy to work with depending on monetary commitments). Next will be pilots and maintenance is outsourced anyway to local providers that are already EU licensed. Interesting thing is, easyJet is by now the biggest Austrian airline, but has no base in Austria, just some office space.
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If this difference of opinion is real (rather than manufactured in the media and places like this) then things could get really interesting all the way to ICAO dispute resolution. We may not find out until Brexit day because the EU commission have banned EASA from talking directly to CAA to work out if they actually do have a fundamental disagreement or if it's merely other people misunderstanding.
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Well, this is what Sky News says and EASA implies. The CAA have, however, publicly stated that existing CAA/EASA licences will automatically convert to UK with no re-issuing at all (and they deny any plan to re-issue).
If this difference of opinion is real (rather than manufactured in the media and places like this) then things could get really interesting all the way to ICAO dispute resolution. We may not find out until Brexit day because the EU commission have banned EASA from talking directly to CAA to work out if they actually do have a fundamental disagreement or if it's merely other people misunderstanding.
If this difference of opinion is real (rather than manufactured in the media and places like this) then things could get really interesting all the way to ICAO dispute resolution. We may not find out until Brexit day because the EU commission have banned EASA from talking directly to CAA to work out if they actually do have a fundamental disagreement or if it's merely other people misunderstanding.
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Yes, that puzzled me as well. I don't have a UK issued EASA license, however, on my continental one it says on the front very large "European Union, Issued in accordance with Part-FCL, EASA Form 141 issue 2". Of course that would be invalid the moment my country would leave the EU as it is clearly based on EU and EASA regulations which do not apply anymore at that moment.
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The UK CAA might accept them and say the EU reference is “cosmetic”... but their statement failed to mention that other States agreed with them. I wouldn’t want to be the first to present an ex-easa ATPL on a ramp check outside the UK post-brexit.
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I admire EZY for facing what may happen and taking logical steps to avoid future problems.
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Truth is nobody has the faintest clue what is going to happen and at the rate civil servants are abandoning the Brexit Dept? Then there'll be very few left to make any kind of decision.
I admire EZY for facing what may happen and taking logical steps to avoid future problems.
I admire EZY for facing what may happen and taking logical steps to avoid future problems.
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If the presence of EU references on UK-issued documents somehow invalidates those documents post-brexit, then every current UK passport also becomes invalid - just the first example that comes to mind. History suggests that won't happen - we didn't, for example, re-issue passports when we joined the EEC nor when the EEC became the EU (and at that time passport had EEC references on) - but then there is no exact historical precedent for brexit.
So, yes, it would be good if this could be clarified with the other states - unfortunately it appears that the EU commission objects to the UK doing that and instructs other states not to answer. Similarly EASA is apparently barred from talking to the CAA. Maybe you could get an answer from the commission...
I wouldn’t want to be the first to present an ex-easa ATPL on a ramp check outside the UK post-brexit.
Maybe time for ICAO to grow a pair and stop this nonsense and insist on ICAO licences worldwide. Why does an Australian ATPL holder need to do fourteen exams to get a CAA/EASA licence to fly the same type in Europe when an EU/UK pilot can come to Australia and just do air law? That same pilot can go to the middle east or HK and be issued a local ATPL after passing air law.
ICAO where are you? ONE international ICAO ATPL. The bloody laws of physics do not change depending on jurisdiction.
ICAO where are you? ONE international ICAO ATPL. The bloody laws of physics do not change depending on jurisdiction.
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If I was not allowed to ever fly to CDG after Brexit and no EU pilots were allowed to fly into London Airports I would be quite happy with that.
All those passengers can just take the train but perhaps after a week of post Brexit reciprocal self harm some common sense might return?
All those passengers can just take the train but perhaps after a week of post Brexit reciprocal self harm some common sense might return?
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If I was not allowed to ever fly to CDG after Brexit and no EU pilots were allowed to fly into London Airports I would be quite happy with that.
All those passengers can just take the train but perhaps after a week of post Brexit reciprocal self harm some common sense might return?
All those passengers can just take the train but perhaps after a week of post Brexit reciprocal self harm some common sense might return?
I also have to ditch my UK CAA license but, after a recent SICKENING experience with them, perhaps this is the only sensible thing to do. After all there is some evidence of the orchestra still playing while the boat is sinking...
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