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Air Canada A321 landed despite go-around order

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Air Canada A321 landed despite go-around order

Old 3rd Sep 2018, 16:43
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs View Post
Does ATC have the capability to transit on 121.5? RAC/OPS above says no (apart from a handheld) and ATC in my neck of the woods cannot TX on 121.5.
Yes - everywhere that I have worked in the last 20+yrs

I think the title should be amended to “Air Canada A321 landed despite go-around REQUEST”. ATC can’t order you to do anything once airbourne . They can request and you better have a very good reason to refuse, but refuse you can.
Depends on what part of the world and what type of airspace. At most international airports, it’s an instruction, not a request. Yes, you have the authority to decide otherwise, but you had better be ready to explain yourself. In many cases, it’s because of something that you are blissfully unaware of. Do you really want to second-guess the guy who knows what all the other aircraft are doing - not just yours?
Guy D'ageradar is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2018, 18:20
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Originally Posted by highflyer40 View Post
I think the title should be amended to “Air Canada A321 landed despite go-around REQUEST”. ATC can’t order you to do anything once airbourne . They can request and you better have a very good reason to refuse, but refuse you can.
I think ATC issues instructions and clearances, not orders and requests. If they cancel a landing clearance and later instruct you to make a GA, you are not allowed to land anymore. If you need to land and/or are unable to make a GA you can use your emergency authority to do what you have to. If you do, you have to declare that beforehand or be able to explain later why you didn’t declare your emergency.
This thread isn’t so much about request vs order, it is about AC once again being somewhat confused what they are supposed to be doing in the last minute of their flights.
hans brinker is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2018, 20:32
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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There were times when the RAF Runway Controller with a red flare was far more attention getting than any radio call.
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Old 3rd Sep 2018, 21:21
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Originally Posted by AerocatS2A View Post
Yeah. The guy who swapped the radios with me was the Capt and he wasn't happy with himself.

We actually had a company policy at the time to have both radios tuned to the appropriate frequency when in the terminal area (starting with Approach or Ground). En route we'd have the second one on 121.5 or company if required. So he managed to switch both radios automatically without thinking about it.
We all like to think we are faultless, but if I'm honest, the few (thankfully) f**kups we make are usually the dumbest ones. I did the 'flaps to zero instead of gear up', which did not go down well at the time. Fortunately, I never did it the other way round... I'm a bit fussy about comms though, because my very first ever instructor thought that comm settings and altimeter settings were 99% of keeping it in one piece. Actually, I think now that he was pretty well spot on. Being in communication with people on the ground and knowing how far away from it you are equate to probably the two most vital things, even if everything else has gone to bits.
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Old 4th Sep 2018, 09:29
  #45 (permalink)  
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Well is a "Go Around:" spoken on the R/T by a Controller an ATC instruction ? Yes it is..
Most national AIPs follow Doc 4444 where it says that in IFR all ATC instructions have to be followed by the crews . I guess it is the same in Canada or in the US.
PIC can of course always decide not to follow an ATC instruction , but he/she will have to explain why afterwards., and if it endangered someone or other aircraft you will be in real trouble.
The reply "unable" comes to mind of course but not really applicable to a Go around I would say.
ATC Watcher is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2018, 20:38
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher View Post
Well is a "Go Around:" spoken on the R/T by a Controller an ATC instruction ? Yes it is..
Most national AIPs follow Doc 4444 where it says that in IFR all ATC instructions have to be followed by the crews . I guess it is the same in Canada or in the US.
PIC can of course always decide not to follow an ATC instruction , but he/she will have to explain why afterwards., and if it endangered someone or other aircraft you will be in real trouble.
The reply "unable" comes to mind of course but not really applicable to a Go around I would say.
unless, of course, you forget to add the go-around power 😬 but that would never happen, would it?!!!
Guy D'ageradar is offline  

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