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BA Wetlease

Old 29th Aug 2018, 07:57
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I see BA SH have quite a number of wet lease Aircraft operating. Titan 320/757 PrivateAir 737 and various E170 Cityflyer and other Companies. Is this an aircraft shortage or Pilot shortage in BA, or both??
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 08:02
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Originally Posted by cessnapete View Post
I see BA SH have quite a number of wet lease Aircraft operating. Titan 320/757 PrivateAir 737 and various E170 Cityflyer and other Companies. Is this an aircraft shortage or Pilot shortage in BA, or both??
The shorthaul leases are due to the acquisition of slots from Monarch at LGW. Impossible to ramp up aircraft and crew resources that quickly but needed to operate slots under 80/20 rules hence wet leases.
Qatar and shortly Air Belgium leases on long haul due to 787 aircraft grounded (5 at the moment I think) due to Rolls Royce Trent engine issues and subsequent operating restrictions enforced.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 09:16
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The Cityflyer E170s are being utilised over the weekends on regional operations instead of sitting idle.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 10:18
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Is this an aircraft shortage or Pilot shortage in BA, or both??
It's a bit of everything, as has been said Monarch slots, 787 engines, and at the risk of being controversial I'd suggest that there is just perhaps a hint of under establishment in previous years finally catching up with the operation.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 10:56
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Mistake by BA management, they Should have bought Monarch last year,No need for Level,,Crews that want to be based in Gatwick,Some of the very best in engineering in their M/t set up Flying standards some of the best in the industry CSman BA 747 retired
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 15:57
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I've just flown as a pax on a Titan 737-400 which was an ex BA aircraft and I have to say the service was excellent, the leg room good and the you get a complimentary drink and a decent sandwich (none of this Marks and Sparks twaddle) It felt like being on a British airline if you can understand that and had an identity in that Monarch kind of way.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 20:25
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Made the mistake of booking BA shorthaul J operated by Titan - not good.
mcdhu
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 20:55
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Originally Posted by CSman View Post
Mistake by BA management, they Should have bought Monarch last year,No need for Level,,Crews that want to be based in Gatwick,Some of the very best in engineering in their M/t set up Flying standards some of the best in the industry CSman BA 747 retired

Maybe, but acquiring Monarch whole would probably have meant taking on the debt too. It makes more commercial sense to let it collapse altogether and pick up the worthwhile bits / personnel you want on the open market at knock down prices and avoid bailing out their creditors.

If the business as a whole had been worth acquiring it would likely not have been close enough to financial collapse to actually go bust.

It's all very cold hearted, but at the end of the day money going into someone else's creditors pocket is money not going into your own staff's pay packets, etc.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 13:14
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Is this an aircraft shortage or Pilot shortage in BA, or both??
They need both and they need them.... yesterday. The word is that the recruiters want to get moving and get offers out to the candidates already interviewed so they can tender their 3 months notice to current employers, but the bean-counters won't approve the expenditure in this years' budget so no offers going out until Jan 2019.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 16:26
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If the business as a whole had been worth acquiring it would likely not have been close enough to financial collapse to actually go bust.
Of course, it also helps if the owners donít load the company up with debt (£200 million in the last set of accounts alone). But perhaps thatís for another thread.

FWIW, Iíve heard no more DEP this side of Christmas, and no plans to extend the wet leases into winter or next year. Not that Iím party to any special information - just galley FM.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 21:38
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Originally Posted by Magplug View Post
They need both and they need them.... yesterday. The word is that the recruiters want to get moving and get offers out to the candidates already interviewed so they can tender their 3 months notice to current employers, but the bean-counters won't approve the expenditure in this years' budget so no offers going out until Jan 2019.
Back when I applied/joined I received my offer in November to start in March, so whatís the problem? A financial year thing?
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Old 31st Aug 2018, 05:57
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Highly unlikely I know but maybe the slightly controversial subject known as “extraordinary measures” (basically leave buy back) has been a roaring success and has temporarily stemmed the demand for DEPs , .

Hope no one who participates in that little gem starts wailing later on in the year that they are fatigued.

(yes, grumpy side of the bed this AM)


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Old 31st Aug 2018, 12:00
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Surprised to hear that mcdhu (#7). We were on a Titan A320 from LGW to AGP in April. Free drinks, free snack, IFE via Titan wi-fi (needed your own iPad mind you) and the cabin crew were actually cheerful.
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Old 31st Aug 2018, 16:42
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Originally Posted by RexBanner
Back when I applied/joined I received my offer in November to start in March, so whatís the problem? A financial year thing?
Exactly so.... The wishes of the accountants can create havoc at the coal-face in any big corporation. BA is going to be short of pilots going well into next year and the fact that the package and prospects are nowhere near the gold plated reward of 10-15 years ago is putting a lot of guys off. If you have been working for a LoCo for 3-5 years and already have a command then jumping ship to become pilot number 4500 and work like a dog every month is not so appealing.
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Old 31st Aug 2018, 16:53
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Originally Posted by Magplug View Post
Exactly so.... The wishes of the accountants can create havoc at the coal-face in any big corporation. BA is going to be short of pilots going well into next year and the fact that the package and prospects are nowhere near the gold plated reward of 10-15 years ago is putting a lot of guys off. If you have been working for a LoCo for 3-5 years and already have a command then jumping ship to become pilot number 4500 and work like a dog every month is not so appealing.
Magplug
I've worked for 10 Airlines and the bean counters have never ever come near recruitment in any of them. What planet are you on - It could be something as simple offer November - take a few weeks to sign contract - give 3 months and hey ho when do you start....
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Old 31st Aug 2018, 19:43
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Originally Posted by Mr Angry from Purley View Post
Magplug
I've worked for 10 Airlines and the bean counters have never ever come near recruitment in any of them. What planet are you on - It could be something as simple offer November - take a few weeks to sign contract - give 3 months and hey ho when do you start....
A moments quiet thought will lead you to the more simple and rational answer. BA is retiring the last few 767s it has and all the courses for NOV and DEC are full of internal pilots doing their conversion courses to new types. That is why there are no immediate places for those months. But hey, don’t let a few facts get in the way of your rants.
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Old 1st Sep 2018, 06:48
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Just seen an initial prťcis of the soon to be introduced new BA rostering system. Surprised this was BALPA approved, won’t do much for recruitment! Although not the final plan, it appears to go from a Seniority based system, to near Blindlines for all!!

Last edited by cessnapete; 1st Sep 2018 at 08:23.
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Old 1st Sep 2018, 09:13
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Possibly a bit of thread drift but the change in rostering system is a long story, discussed a little bit on the DEP thread, discussed..sorry, argued about, at length on the in-house BALPA forum.

We were told traditional Bidline had to go (allegedly...imminent loss of IT support being one reason quoted)...in truth the system had already very much evolved from the version of old and often not in a good way. The new options were a revamped, much simpler, much more restricted version of Bidline or a system called “Jeppessen Strict Seniority” or “JSS”. The BALPA headshed recommended JSS, there was a vote..with strings to other T&C factors attached..and JSS won the day.

As for recruiting ..well anyone joining thinking they are going to enjoy the BA “Bidline” lifestyle of old will be very dissappointed...IMHO..








Last edited by wiggy; 1st Sep 2018 at 10:27.
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Old 2nd Sep 2018, 18:17
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Slightly off topic again but I know of Airbus DEPs starting in December, so not sure thereís any sort of financial recruitment ban. The 767 retraining theory sounds more plausible
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Old 2nd Sep 2018, 19:13
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BA has long wet-leased aircraft in as required to meet capacity shortfalls, for all sorts of reasons, from fleet issues to increases in demand beyond the normal fleet planning process. I recall back in the late 1970s Britannia Airways 737s at Heathrow (otherwise quite unknown there) which were covering yet another fleet issue on the Tridents.

Anyone remember the N-registered American Trans Air 727, with minimal BA titles, on London-Glasgow ?
Surprised to hear that mcdhu (#7). We were on a Titan A320 from LGW to AGP in April.
We, too, were on a Titan sub earlier in the year, which I quite looked forward to having heard other accounts, and although a 767 sub for a 737-800 load gave plenty of space, the crew all round were distinctly underwhelming.
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