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Someone stole a Q400 from Seattle?

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Someone stole a Q400 from Seattle?

Old 12th Aug 2018, 08:48
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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I'm really disappointed - this being a Professional Pilots Forum - that none of you are questioning the official version of this event. A baggage loader successfully operating the systems of a Q400, taxying, takeoff, loops / rolls near ground level at first try? I was born on a day but that day wasn't yesterday.
I guess this is how the System keeps us in check. If you point out the holes in the story of these events you probably won't be a professional pilot for very long....
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 09:06
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mark in CA View Post
At a couple of points in the ATC recording, when being advised of certain flying issues, he clearly says something like "I've played a lot of video games."
Yes that was an interesting comment. It was telling in some respects because if had he been one of those Flight Sim guys he probably would have been more forthright in mentioning that. But his reference to 'video games' suggest any simulated flying he had may have been more rudimentary and maybe even app based. In other words he knew what pull back and push forward would do. But who knows, the Q400 was cleaned up after take off so he wan't entirely lacking the necessaries to fly it. I'm sure that worked in favour of the chase F-15 who was better placed than had he been dirty and approaching stall!!
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 09:16
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PukinDog View Post
But you go on ahead thinking whatever you want about good 'ole plane-thieving, reckless-flying, suicidal "Rich" that felt like he was entitled to an audience just because he decided to off himself.
From his perspective, he probably didn't care about an audience. He just saw an opportunity and used it.
He flew out to the Olympic Mountains, that probably were most beautiful that time of day, and said goodbye to life.
That there is reckless behaviour in a person that isn't anymore afraid of dying shouldn't be a Nobel Prize worthy realization.

Would you rather had him take off, buzz around and not talk to controllers what this was all about?
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 09:17
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PukinDog View Post

But you go on ahead thinking whatever you want about good 'ole plane-thieving, reckless-flying, suicidal "Rich" that felt like he was entitled to an audience just because he decided to off himself.
I work somewhere that frequently has people commit suicide and many people call it selfish and that they want an audience. The truth is that at that moment theyíre not them anymore, theyíre in a different headspace and the only outcome they see is one of them ending their life by how they have chosen. Their mind completely switches off from what makes sense. From the lack of audio communication on taxi/takeoff Iíd say Rich is in that place, heís effectively on his own auto-pilot. The only way to stop him is by someone speaking to him, and Iíd guess nobody was there when he got on that plane.

Later in the recordings It sounds like he might be crying as he talks to the other pilot and ATC about landing. He also said he didnít expect to make it after the roll.

He was heading for the Olympic mountains, at a guess that was his intended final destination but the talk between pilots/atc might have just convinced him to not do it. I donít think he ever intended to land the plane when he got on it. I think the ATC/pilot chat in the air will have made him realise this wasnít the way to go.

Not sure if the crash was a landing attempt or not but there is a lesson in not ignoring mental health to be learnt here.


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Old 12th Aug 2018, 09:21
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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. He knew what he was doing was wrong and he stated he didn't want anybody to get hurt. I think his maintaining comms with a very professional controller and mmmm mostly obeying his requests ensured no one got hurt on the ground or in the air.
He still destroyed millions of dollars of perfectly good equipment belonging to someone else just to show off. And that's without counting the bill for the scrambling jets, firefighters, etc.
I'm with PukinDog on this one.
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 09:22
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by keeprighton1974 View Post
I'm really disappointed - this being a Professional Pilots Forum - that none of you are questioning the official version of this event.
So you're suggesting this is a conspiracy of some sort. That it's just all too unlikely a ground staffer could work out how to get a complex machine like this started up and flying?

Originally Posted by keeprighton1974 View Post
I was born on a day but that day wasn't yesterday.
So it's clearly not what it appears to be? Something way more sinister?

Originally Posted by keeprighton1974 View Post
I guess this is how the System keeps us in check. If you point out the holes in the story of these events you probably won't be a professional pilot for very long....
So you're saying that "the System" (i.e. Big Brother, the Elite, the Illuminati, etc) have once again pulled the strings and if one of us lower level pawns has the audacity to question it, it's likely to impact your ability to get a good job?

Mmm.....

Perhaps Rich just loved the planes he worked with and read up all about them to learn how they're started and operated. Maybe he's been in the cockpits many times and innocently had yarns with various pilots showing enthusiasm and they've imparted some knowledge to him. Then with his home sim he'd learnt the fundamentals of flying them enough to get this one underway and airborne. The maneuvers aren't all that advanced if you've tried stuff like this on a sim a few times.

Maybe you'd like Alex Jones to cover this story for a bit more "depth of investigation" Lol!

(one thing I really think the world just doesn't need is yet another conspiracy theory about an aircraft accident; be this one a deliberate act. A very troubled man is dead, his family in considerable pain, the ATC controller probably heavily affected too, and his work colleagues at the airline shocked.....I really don't think it's too much more than that and as someone above has alluded to, if you do some research on what the black dog is and what it can do to a person this sad incident is simply a tragedy, nothing more)
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 09:27
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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So sad he took his life. To see the Olympic mountains you can always charter a small plane with instructor for some hours and have fun for a few hundred bucks.
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 09:35
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by keeprighton1974 View Post
I'm really disappointed - this being a Professional Pilots Forum - that none of you are questioning the official version of this event. A baggage loader successfully operating the systems of a Q400, taxying, takeoff, loops / rolls near ground level at first try? I was born on a day but that day wasn't yesterday.
I guess this is how the System keeps us in check. If you point out the holes in the story of these events you probably won't be a professional pilot for very long....
A loop, in a Q400, pulling out practically in ground effect?

Impossible except through dumb luck.
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 09:47
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DirtyProp View Post
He still destroyed millions of dollars of perfectly good equipment belonging to someone else just to show off.
Did he say that he was doing it to show off, or did you make up your mind about that in the absence of information and relevant knowledge on mental health?

You're assuming that a suicidal human thinks like a regular, fully functioning human. They do not. He probably decribed it best himself when he said he had a couple of screws loose. It's a failure of a biological component at which point everything that might seem simplistically normal to you or me no longer applies.
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 10:06
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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at an international airport

-you would get every attention when you startup the engines without any startup clearance and with no flightplan of this aircraft in the system

- you would surely trigger a full blown alert when you start to taxi an aircraft without radio communication to ground , without startup and taxi clearance and without any flightplan issued .

i,m wondering how he made it to takeoff position on the runway ??? i would expect you would be blocked with e.g a fire truck to reach the runway in such a case
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 10:17
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aerobat77 View Post
at an international airport

-you would get every attention when you startup the engines without any startup clearance and with no flightplan of this aircraft in the system

- you would surely trigger a full blown alert when you start to taxi an aircraft without radio communication to ground , without startup and taxi clearance and without any flightplan issued .

i,m wondering how he made it to takeoff position on the runway ??? i would expect you would be blocked with e.g a fire truck to reach the runway in such a case
Play this YouTube coverage of the initial and subsequent ATC stream and you'll hear the the SeaTac tower calling the aircraft attempting to work out who it is and what's happening. I'd say the distance from where he started to the runway threshold was pretty short so there was likely no time for any intervention

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Old 12th Aug 2018, 10:17
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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I donít think he was showing off. From the statements he made, and perhaps the tone, it seemed to me he had a grievance against the company, a feeling that he had been given the rough end of a pineapple, so to speak. I think he was sending a message to the company, and perhaps trying to make them pay somehow.
Regardless, a needless tragedy. If you havenít been in a dark place yet, you will probably get there sometime. Hopefully, someone will give you a hand back up.
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 10:19
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Great, not only do we have conspiracy theory 'nutters' on here we also have people with no understanding of mental health. Yes, I do see the irony in that statement but some of the comments here show no respect for this man's famiy, friends, co-workers or the ATC guys who had to listen to this and work through it.

Mental health is a huge problem in society, it needs addressing properley not sweeping under the carpet or blaming the individual.

Think on.
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 10:39
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DirtyProp View Post
He still destroyed millions of dollars of perfectly good equipment belonging to someone else just to show off. And that's without counting the bill for the scrambling jets, firefighters, etc.
I'm with PukinDog on this one.

Dont fret Dirty Prop. Your air tickets paid for the insurance premiums and the insurance company budgeted for losses. No one lost anything except perhaps some reduced dividend to the shareholders of the insurance company. The F-15 guys got some extremely good training which comes out of their training and operational budgets again, already accounted for.
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 10:57
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by growahead View Post
I donít think he was showing off. From the statements he made, and perhaps the tone, it seemed to me he had a grievance against the company, a feeling that he had been given the rough end of a pineapple, so to speak. I think he was sending a message to the company, and perhaps trying to make them pay somehow.
Regardless, a needless tragedy. If you havenít been in a dark place yet, you will probably get there sometime. Hopefully, someone will give you a hand back up.
Absolutely Growahead. Tragic indeed for all. Like the Germanwings crash (and I know this is nothing like the Germanwings crash) these guys seemed to harbor some company resentment but I wonder how much of that is just long time inner turmoil bubbling to the surface and finding a convenient home (and unfortunately a convenient tool) in their current employment circumstances. I do hope the controller gets some good support around him. He did a great job of remaining absolutely professional even after Rich said to him 'there are peoples live at stake here! No controller I would suspect is prepared in the slightest to deal with mental health issues in the cockpit but there he was dealing with it anyway and my hat goes off to him.
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 11:27
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chuboy View Post
A loop, in a Q400, pulling out practically in ground effect?

Impossible except through dumb luck.
Agree. It was a barrel roll that never looked like being one. Or a very poorly executed aileron roll or a screwed up split-s. Whatever it was it was indeed dumb luck that he ended up pulling out of it, although that may not have been the outcome he was looking for. The wings did not appear to be threatening to clap wingtips and the light aircraft (almost out of fuel by the sounds of it) was probably more sprightly and agile than he thought (expected).

Last edited by Lord Farringdon; 12th Aug 2018 at 11:34. Reason: grammar correction
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 12:07
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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turin , nobody says the atc is faked .

i,m personally say its only strange how he was able and had the time to start the engines , at least connect the generators to the bus , start the avionics , taxi away to the runway and depart . it appears they got alerted when he was about to lineup which is very late . ground control sleeping ?
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 12:36
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Intruder View Post
The cargo area at SEA is north of the terminals, and somewhat less well-lit. It is also close to the threshold for the active runway, so he would have had minimal taxi time/distance. According to the local news, he started up, waited for a gap between 2 other taxiing airplanes, and snuck between them. The one in front of him was cleared for takeoff, and he simply followed.
I was wondering the same thing, thank you for clearing that up. So there would not have been sufficient time to do anything about it probably, and even if there was, what could anybody have done when he's in an airplane heading for the Runway...
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 12:56
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Aerobat

I have no experience of a Q400 but, if itís like every aircraft Iíve flown, you donít need avionics in order to get airborne. Especially when you consider the guyís intentions.

Engines can be started very quickly and you are ready to taxy within a minute of the noise starting. All of this at an airport where noise levels are high anyway.

Given the circumstances I donít think many airports would have been able to intervene in time. That may, of course, change in the future.

BV
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Old 12th Aug 2018, 13:00
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aerobat77 View Post
turin , nobody says the atc is faked .

i,m personally say its only strange how he was able and had the time to start the engines , at least connect the generators to the bus , start the avionics , taxi away to the runway and depart . it appears they got alerted when he was about to lineup which is very late . ground control sleeping ?
You, and another who asked why no-one noticed him taxying without a clearance, are familiar with the concept of non-movement areas at US airfields and the boundary for the northern ramp area in relation to 16L/C at KSEA in particular?
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