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Someone stole a Q400 from Seattle?

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Someone stole a Q400 from Seattle?

Old 11th Aug 2018, 11:58
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Propellerpilot View Post
I am also asking myself - what will the impending repercussions on this incident be... more control, clamp down, TSA etc... ?
Glad nobody else got directly hurt by this stunt.
I suspect that Human Factors - in the form of Psychological testing and Psych Evaluations - will now get even greater play. I don't believe it will be too hard for regulatory authorities to argue that yearly Psychological Testing and Interviews are now the way forward (For pilots, engineers, safety involved personnel etc). What a pity - the true psychopaths are the Airline Managers that are producing the terms and conditions that are leading to individuals having the mental health issues.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 11:59
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-start-a-Boeing-747

I had a 12 year old student who would finish a lesson and then start asking proper questions about how to enter stuff into his 747 FMC that he flew every night.

Last edited by bunk exceeder; 11th Aug 2018 at 13:03.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 12:42
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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This is actually easier than most non pilots might think ie unauthorised taking and flying a commercial aircraft, I was once asked by ops to carry out a taxi test of regional jet and whilst I’m at it can I do a LVO check on the aircraft, could I sort it out locally with my regional airport?

So turned up ordered some fuel booked out VFR would need to do 3 approaches the 3rd a full stop landing, so off we go told by ATC it would be 30 minutes before they could let us fly the ILS due inbounds so we cleared off to the North at 2000 - 4000 over the Penines some of it just over 1500 agl then back round for the approach, not a single person from company had spoken to the airport or handling agent. 50 minutes free flying VFR in a regional jet and great fun.

i know of ex mil guy that told me that some guys borrowed a Hurcules for night out in the ME (not RAF) and then adjusted the fuel used over the next 6 official flight to cover the fuel used on the jolly, nearly got caught tho because one bod onboard didn’t make the return trip due falling asleep with a prostitute ����

he was then then in another country with no papers.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 13:02
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Close to 1 million suicides around the globe every year. Most go unnoticed. This one didn`t.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 13:14
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Was it actually a suicide, or did the chap get himself unintentionally way out of his depth? He sounded calm and relatively relaxed on the ATC recordings. Would a man about to kill himself be doing aerobatics?
Very sad, either way, fortuanate that no-one else was involved in the crash.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 13:23
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos View Post
Was it actually a suicide, or did the chap get himself unintentionally way out of his depth? He sounded calm and relatively relaxed on the ATC recordings. Would a man about to kill himself be doing aerobatics?
Very sad, either way, fortuanate that no-one else was involved in the crash.
He stated multiple times we was going to end his life in many ways. He said he was going to do a loop then drive it nose down in the ground afterwards. Also mentioned he was surprised he didnít impact terrain when he did one of the near ground maneuvers, he was expecting to implode it. Listen to the tapes.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 13:25
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Ah, fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 13:36
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos View Post
Ah, fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.
Also from him a mention of life in jail/goal if he landed - and I expect he could have done a survivable landing from what we have seen.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 13:44
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos View Post
Was it actually a suicide, or did the chap get himself unintentionally way out of his depth? He sounded calm and relatively relaxed on the ATC recordings. Would a man about to kill himself be doing aerobatics?
Very sad, either way, fortuanate that no-one else was involved in the crash.
Suicide is a very calm and calculated thing in most cases you do not just decide to kill yourself then do it its a planned out event and in a very rational thought out process.Everyone has there demons sadly this poor man could only see 1 way to deal with them
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 13:48
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Fantastic job by the controller. That wound have been incredibly stressful for him and he did a great job in what would have been a very traumatic circumstances. Hope he's doing well and gets any support he needs.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 13:56
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Pilotguy

What model of F15s do they have at Portland? Do they have a special warp drive that weíre not allowed to hear about?

112NM in under 5 minutes? That would be about 24 NM per minute. Letís call that an average speed of 1400-1500 knots. Thatís pretty awesome.

Whilst I accept they would have made their way to the scene with all haste and supersonic flight would have been permitted, letís not get carried away.

112 NM isnít too far for a QRA scramble either is it? Imagine a Coningsby jet being scrambled to an incident off Cornwall.

Iíd say the QRA did a pretty good job of getting there in a timely fashion.

BV
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 14:24
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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When there was an incursion into Seattle airspace when Obama was there, they did go supersonic from PDX, rocked the place, and a bunch of busted windows, as they were at about 2500 feet.
Top speed is around mach 2.5

Rock42 scrambling from PDX (note afterburners and sidewinders)

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Old 11th Aug 2018, 14:32
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Top Speed

I know what Wikipedia will say about top speed but Iím just trying to inject a dose of reality.

Mach 2.5 may have been achieved once, in a clean jet, at high level, in its early test days, but the reality for a tooled up jet will be somewhat less than that.

BV
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 14:48
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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They donít have to travel the entire 112 miles to get off a shot ? How far do they need to be to shoot ? Whatís rules of engagement on cilvilan aircraft ? Need to sight first ?
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 15:00
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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VSAviation recording from the start


Starts with tower noticing taxi
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 15:04
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Toruk

I have no idea what US QRA RoE are but I would guess they would probably look to get pretty close before shooting.

If there is a requirement to visually identify the aircraft, that can be done from a few miles away with a pod (didnít see a pod on the PDX F15s, although that doesnít mean they werenít carrying one).

The videos that have been released appear to support my suggestion that the F15s would want (at least one of them) to get close.

You have probably read reports before of fighters reporting what is going on in the cockpit of airliners. That might give you an idea of what their job might entail. Admittedly, it would have been very hard to close to that sort of range in this case.

If the order to fire came, they had a choice of AMRAAM or AIM9. I couldnít possibly discuss what range that would be from but once again, Wikipedia might give you a good idea. Remember, the jet you see in the video wouldnít necessarily be the guy who fires the shot if the call came.

Anyway, itís a very sad story regardless.

BV
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 15:36
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Well if anything comes out of this, it shows the US has learnt the lessons of 911 and their airborne response systems in place now work.


Poor guy.
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 15:59
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Kudos to ATC for their sheer professionalism. The manner in which they maintained normal communications with other traffic, while something TOTALLY INSANE was going on in their other ear is a lesson to all. Well done!

(Any word on whether the perp had prior flying experience? The degree of coordination in that barrel roll / pull out seemed improbably high.)
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 16:48
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking View Post
Quite aside from the fact that the F15 would not accelerate to Mach 2 immediately, I have also mentioned how Mach 2 would be incredibly unlikely in the aircraft fit illustrated. There are not many (if any) aircraft that could actually reach Mach 2 at or near to sea level. The pilot would also not want to arrive in the vicinity at Mach 2.

So assuming an acceleration to supersonic, a climb to a reasonable transit height and then a descent to intercept the Q400, even ten minutes would be a stretch. 15 minutes from airborne to intercept is my guess and that is still perfectly respectable.

Iím not sure what else I can say to convince you and the issue is in danger of sidetracking the conversation.

BV
To add a little bit this conversation. As part of their investigation, the 9/11 commissioners asked the U.S. Air Force to provide information regarding the top speed of the F-16s and F-15s that were on alert in 2001.

The top speed for the F-16s was Mach 1.3 and Mach 1.2 for the F-15s. It should be noted that the F-15s that scrambled out of Otis were carrying all three external fuel tanks as opposed to two external fuel tanks on the F-16s. I don't recall if those speeds are for a specific altitude
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Old 11th Aug 2018, 16:53
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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archive-server.liveatc.net/ksea/KSEA_TWR-Aug-11-2018-0230Z.mp3

Starting around 3:33
Aircraft on charlie lining up runway one six center say your callsign
The dash eight on runway one six center say your callsign
The dash eight on runway one six center say your callsign
Who's the dash eight holding on runway one six center
Around 3:34
[unintelligible] Alaska three twenty two that aircraft [unintelligible] rolling [unintelligible]
Who's the aircraft on runway one six center
His wheels are smoking left and right uh as of right now rolling down the runway
Alright I'm not even talking to him
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