4th Aug 2018 Junkers JU52 crashed in Switzerland
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And how exactly, given the info available, have you reached this conclusion ?
New restrictions to JU-Air flights
Sorry to start a new thread but the previous has been locked down for some reason (mods: fell free to append to existing).
The OFAC has released a few restriction for JU-Air effective immediately (sorry only found the French version). They require
Although nothing explicit one can read between the lines...
The OFAC has released a few restriction for JU-Air effective immediately (sorry only found the French version). They require
- flight level above legal minima (sorry no specifics given)
- GPS based flight recording to retrace past routes
- measures (again no specifics) insuring that passengers can't move in the cabin during flight
Although nothing explicit one can read between the lines...
There are some eerily similar circumstances between this crash and the Convair in SA. Highly experienced pilots allowing risky behaviour they otherwise would never allow in their professional worlds.
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Initial Ju 52 report out
https://www.sust.admin.ch/inhalte/AV...hte/HB-HOT.pdf
Thread was locked so couldn't add it.
''The Swiss Transportation Safety Investigation Board (STSB) issued a preliminary report on the August 4 accident involving a historic Junkers Ju-52/3m accident.
The Ju-52 aircraft, operated by Ju-Air, crashed into the western slope of Piz Segnas, Switzerland, at an elevation of 2540 m. All 17 passengers and three crew members were killed.
The brief report stated that the aircraft flew on a northeasterly course into the basin southwest of Piz Segnas. Towards the north end of the basin, it began a left turn, which developed into a descending spiral trajectory. A short time later, the aircraft collided with the ground almost vertically and at high speed.''
https://news.aviation-safety.net/201...ountain-basin/
Thread was locked so couldn't add it.
''The Swiss Transportation Safety Investigation Board (STSB) issued a preliminary report on the August 4 accident involving a historic Junkers Ju-52/3m accident.
The Ju-52 aircraft, operated by Ju-Air, crashed into the western slope of Piz Segnas, Switzerland, at an elevation of 2540 m. All 17 passengers and three crew members were killed.
The brief report stated that the aircraft flew on a northeasterly course into the basin southwest of Piz Segnas. Towards the north end of the basin, it began a left turn, which developed into a descending spiral trajectory. A short time later, the aircraft collided with the ground almost vertically and at high speed.''
Very light preliminary I'd say...
The two other planes are flying again since last weekend. They had only few cancelations of reserved flights. Out of the 25 pilots pool one has demanded some time out.
The two other planes are flying again since last weekend. They had only few cancelations of reserved flights. Out of the 25 pilots pool one has demanded some time out.
BAZL ordered doubled minimum altitudes, GPS position logging for all flights and passengers seated and belted during all flights all the time. It's good that they can continue flying.
Here is a translation of the linked Swiss report dated 15Aug:
An investigation.
Place, date and time: 500 m southeast of Segnaspass (GR), August 4, 2018, 16:56 LT
Aircraft
Enrolment: HB-Hot
Samples: Junkers aircraft and engine Works AG, Ju-52/3m G4E
Holder: Association of Friends of the Swiss Air Force (VFL),
Via Landstrasse 271, 8600 Dübendorf
Owner: Swiss Air Force, P.O. Box 1072, 8600 Dübendorf
Pilots: 2
Cabin Crew: 1
Passengers: 17
Flight:
Flight rules: Visual flight Rules-VFR
Mode of operation: lucrative
Begin of departure: Locarno (LSZL)
Destination: Dübendorf (LSMD)
Damage:
Crew: 3 fatally injured
Passengers: 17 fatally injured
Third parties: None
Aircraft: Destroyed
Third-party damage: low Floor damage
Short Description: The plane flew on a northeast course in the basin Southwest
of the Piz Segnas. Against the northern end of the basin
It started a left turn that turned into a spiral trajectory
Developed against the bottom. A short time later, the plane collided almost
perpendicular to the terrain.
An investigation.
Place, date and time: 500 m southeast of Segnaspass (GR), August 4, 2018, 16:56 LT
Aircraft
Enrolment: HB-Hot
Samples: Junkers aircraft and engine Works AG, Ju-52/3m G4E
Holder: Association of Friends of the Swiss Air Force (VFL),
Via Landstrasse 271, 8600 Dübendorf
Owner: Swiss Air Force, P.O. Box 1072, 8600 Dübendorf
Pilots: 2
Cabin Crew: 1
Passengers: 17
Flight:
Flight rules: Visual flight Rules-VFR
Mode of operation: lucrative
Begin of departure: Locarno (LSZL)
Destination: Dübendorf (LSMD)
Damage:
Crew: 3 fatally injured
Passengers: 17 fatally injured
Third parties: None
Aircraft: Destroyed
Third-party damage: low Floor damage
Short Description: The plane flew on a northeast course in the basin Southwest
of the Piz Segnas. Against the northern end of the basin
It started a left turn that turned into a spiral trajectory
Developed against the bottom. A short time later, the plane collided almost
perpendicular to the terrain.
The report seems to make a few things more established. I note that there is no reference to "high speed". Unsurprisingly, there is no real analysis here.
OAP
OAP
Last edited by Onceapilot; 23rd Aug 2018 at 10:02.
Update: Report on 4 Aug 2018 JU52 Accident
A report has been issued by the Swiss authorities about the accident, including details about corrosion in parts of the airframe. I believe that operation of the type has been stopped at the present time. Obviously, a better translation of the document will help further understanding.
OAP
OAP
This document is an interim accident report but, I am afraid I cannot post a translation. I will attempt to post the internet address.
https://www.sust.admin.ch/inhalte/AV...B-HOT_ZB_D.pdf
OAP
https://www.sust.admin.ch/inhalte/AV...B-HOT_ZB_D.pdf
OAP
Last edited by Onceapilot; 20th Nov 2018 at 20:16. Reason: Update to confirm interim report
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Sad story . This interim report basically does not talk about the accident itself but about the corrosion found on the aircraft ,and despite the conclusion that the corrosion had nothing to do with the accident grounded the 2 other aircraft ;
11. Airworthiness certificate of the HB-HOP aircraft of 7 June 2007
will be withdrawn from now and until further notice
12. Airworthiness certificate of the HB-HOS aircraft of 7 June 2007
will be withdrawn from now and until further notice.
13. The aircraft HB-HOP and HB-HOS may with immediate effect
no longer be put into circulation.
will be withdrawn from now and until further notice
12. Airworthiness certificate of the HB-HOS aircraft of 7 June 2007
will be withdrawn from now and until further notice.
13. The aircraft HB-HOP and HB-HOS may with immediate effect
no longer be put into circulation.
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My understanding with help from google.
Significant shortcomings in maintenance, management and parts inventory. Exfoliation corrosion in floor/wing attach area. Had cylinders salvaged from 1941 wreck? Engine two/three new cam discs found with damage, same in sister ships. Fuel/oil lines 30 years old!
Poor condition how ever, not related to the accident.
Significant shortcomings in maintenance, management and parts inventory. Exfoliation corrosion in floor/wing attach area. Had cylinders salvaged from 1941 wreck? Engine two/three new cam discs found with damage, same in sister ships. Fuel/oil lines 30 years old!
Poor condition how ever, not related to the accident.
My understanding with help from google.
Significant shortcomings in maintenance, management and parts inventory. Exfoliation corrosion in floor/wing attach area. Had cylinders salvaged from 1941 wreck? Engine two/three new cam discs found with damage, same in sister ships. Fuel/oil lines 30 years old!
Poor condition how ever, not related to the accident.
Significant shortcomings in maintenance, management and parts inventory. Exfoliation corrosion in floor/wing attach area. Had cylinders salvaged from 1941 wreck? Engine two/three new cam discs found with damage, same in sister ships. Fuel/oil lines 30 years old!
Poor condition how ever, not related to the accident.
The intermediate report contains some more interesting details. Temperature was ISA + 16 and all engines were delivering power. The report from the accident investigation branch is not only rather damning for operator and maintenance, but also for the oversight of the Swiss Federal Office of Civil Aviation. They (FOCA) claim they could not have seen all the rotten stuff. Well, looking for instance at the picture of the fuel lines, its difficult to imagine that even a brief inspection could overlook that. Inspections nowadays are all about forms, stamps and signatures, the hardware only gets a brief glimpse. Not helpful is also the fact that operator, maintenance and engine repairs are all controlled by the same persons. And the boss now claims that the corrosion set in only after the accident.....
Not so far. You can copy and post the text into bing translate, page by page. The result is pidgin but, understandable. I have read that: " It crashed, 20 killed, ISA+16, no fire, unsurvivable. Subsequently, they have found corrosion, poor repairs, unregulated parts, unsegregated stock, all engines working at impact, fuel on board. The Flying permits for the other two aircraft are withdrawn. The full report will address all aspects of the accident".
It is sad reading. However, there is no attempt to describe the cause of the accident that I can find in this interim report.
OAP
It is sad reading. However, there is no attempt to describe the cause of the accident that I can find in this interim report.
OAP
Happy to see this topic re-opened for posting...
There is indeed a lot of factual findings in that intérim report.
One thing I find interresting is that the engines were all the original 1939 models (I understand upgraded / more powerful engines were later fitted in the JU-52) with all about 1000h since last retrofit. I wonder what kind of actual power they could deliver.
Unless I have missed it no mention of passenger recording. Surprising.
There is indeed a lot of factual findings in that intérim report.
One thing I find interresting is that the engines were all the original 1939 models (I understand upgraded / more powerful engines were later fitted in the JU-52) with all about 1000h since last retrofit. I wonder what kind of actual power they could deliver.
Unless I have missed it no mention of passenger recording. Surprising.
One thing I find interresting is that the engines were all the original 1939 models (I understand upgraded / more powerful engines were later fitted in the JU-52) with all about 1000h since last retrofit. I wonder what kind of actual power they could deliver.
Unless I have missed it no mention of passenger recording. Surprising.
There is indeed no statement to the cause of this tragedy. I think they will be very careful to word it even in the final report as it might be fodder for the lawyers. There is strong sympathy for the enthusiasm of the hole outfit (understandbly) and the pilots are mostly of military background who will stick togethter like glue (also understandbly)
It was mentioned at page 15:
An der Unfallstelle konnte eine grössere Anzahl von Mobiltelefonen und einzelne Filmkameras von Passagieren und Besatzungsmitgliedern sichergestellt werden. Diese Aufzeichnungsgeräte wurden beim Unfall teilweise stark beschädigt. Bis zur Veröffentlichung des Zwischenberichts konnten einzelne Datenträger ausgelesen werden. Die Reparatur- und Auslesearbeiten an der Mehrzahl der sichergestellten Geräte dauern aber weiter an und werden noch geraume Zeit in Anspruch nehmen.
Roughly translated: On the accident site a larger number of mobile phones and cameras owned by passengers and crew were secured. Some of recorders were heavily damaged. Until the publishing of interim report it was possible to read data from some devices. Repair and downloading data from the majority of recorders is in progress and will take longer time.
Note: German nor English is not my native language so sorry if is not perfect.
An der Unfallstelle konnte eine grössere Anzahl von Mobiltelefonen und einzelne Filmkameras von Passagieren und Besatzungsmitgliedern sichergestellt werden. Diese Aufzeichnungsgeräte wurden beim Unfall teilweise stark beschädigt. Bis zur Veröffentlichung des Zwischenberichts konnten einzelne Datenträger ausgelesen werden. Die Reparatur- und Auslesearbeiten an der Mehrzahl der sichergestellten Geräte dauern aber weiter an und werden noch geraume Zeit in Anspruch nehmen.
Roughly translated: On the accident site a larger number of mobile phones and cameras owned by passengers and crew were secured. Some of recorders were heavily damaged. Until the publishing of interim report it was possible to read data from some devices. Repair and downloading data from the majority of recorders is in progress and will take longer time.
Note: German nor English is not my native language so sorry if is not perfect.